to be fed up about never having any money even though DH earns (just) over £100k?

[MakemineaGandT]

I know it sounds like a lot, but with a big mortgage and all the other usual bills we have very little disposable cash.

We don't have a cleaner or any other kind of help

Neither of us has had any new clothes for at least 18 months

We spend £100 a week on groceries, so hardly extravagant

We haven't been on holiday for 3 years

We do all DIY etc ourselves

We've been out twice this YEAR

I just don't know how we can cut back. It feels as though we are working so hard and yet we are always struggling.

It makes me really annoyed when I see comments (for example on that taxing over £150k thread) about the "super rich") - I guess on paper we look "rich" but it certainly doesn't feel like it!

See, I luuurrrve Xenia.
Although she's sometimes a tad blunt everything she advises is common sense which I'm sure most of us would tell our daughters
-you can be as good as any man
-you can be self reliant
-you can and should have an equal partnership.
On another thread we discussed which famous women we admired and the list spanned from Helen Kenndy to Chami Chakrabati (SP) to Dorris Lessing to Madonna.
All women who do things in their own right. Who make a difference to the world we live in.
And Xenia was mentioned a couple of times too .

yes litchick, but obviously we can and should have an equal partnership, but you can't magic it out of thin air.

IF relationship is genuinely equal, ie a team, then there's nothing wrong with one half of team caring for their baby.

Being self-reliant is to be valued highly, but it has its own price, for many mothers. Putting their child in childcare for longer than they want, working very hard but having no money to show for it, and doing most of the housework as well.

Because although women should have an equal partnership and earn like for like as a man, this isn't the case very often.

If you have a less than equal partnership, should you sacrafice having children?

Xenias strong beliefs are idealistic and flawed.

I'm not somebody who was prepared to put up with an inequal relationship. I left. But I think there are more obstacles to being a self-reliant mother of a young child than Xenia can really contemplate.

I'm glad you 'luuuuurve xenia' litchick. I certainly don't have the same fondness and never will have for her and her posts.

I'm quite happy to rely pretty heavily on DH's income to keep us going. I'm quite happy that he is the one that holds down the full-time job. I'm quite happy that I take on most of the parenting that goes on in this house....in my opinion that's how it should be. I would never in a million years be able to earn what he earns and nor would I want to because my kids would suffer as a result and, to be honest, my kids are far more important than money. I don't need to be earning £x to ensure they are happy and well cared for.

Ha ha whispy, yeah tiny bit obsequious I thought.

If, as Xenia tells her dds, they should look for an equal relationship,then it's peverse to refuse behave like two halves of a team working towards the same thing. Sometimes, in an equal relationship, that is the ideal solution.

It is in an inequal relationship where it is more important to be financially self-reliant.

(I only got CSE grade 2 in English y'know...and my English ability is only tested as far as Key Stage 2 (DD1) and Biff and Chip (DD2) at the moment so my familiarity around the dictionary is a bit slack atm).....

Yes, but a shame the dependence and team stuff usually means women end up earning a pittance and have no proper career for 20 years and men don't make those sacrifices. Pity the sharing and commitment and dependence always means the woman but never the man is better off.

xenia...I'm only 41. My kids are 5 and 10. I'm sure once I'm child free and with plenty of years left ahead of me I will be more than capable of getting back on the career ladder with employment and may even earn myself a decent wage too...but, in the meantime, I am quite content at being 'Mum' to my kids. Not every woman wants to be equal to their partners and I don't see it is a shame, as you put it, that some of us don't feel it entirely necessary. So long as one of us earns the money to keep our kids clothed, fed and warm then that's good enough for me.

on other hand one can also be financially independent and in a good relationship.

majority male wage does not equate to happiness (or unhappiness)

Indeed. The problem for some women is men disappear and don't pay and your children suffer or you find the only job you can go back to is minimum wage.

But really my point was if someone finds their husband's income isn't high enough go forth and earn the money yourself and don't whinge or else adopt my money saving tips above. People think all kinds of things are necessary when they aren't.

Another question is begged whispy - (and I make no judgement on your lifestyle, or Xenia's, or my own choices- each to his/her own, definitely. PLus I'm only going on the last page or so, as I cannot trwal through the entire thread again, and have slept since reading it!)
what are you teaching your daughters?
Are you teaching them that they need to work hard and aim high so they can be independent if necessary or are you raising them to be nice, and subservient, and how to ensnare a man who will be a high earner and support them?
I ask because I know a fair few people who are teaching their boys to aim high, but their girls to be 'nice'. This is something I find very sad.

well one would hope the universal message for both genders is work hard,get career,be self reliant,financially solvent,happy

i do hope the days of gerls "marrying well" remains consigned to gushy books

certainly i was encouraged by parents to "stick in at school" and definitley not encouraged to be get "married off" as an alternative strategy for earning

does any female (apart from WAGS)really see her worth and role solely as bagging a good husband

What am I teaching my kids?

I don't teach them anything - I merely make sure they enjoy their school life, enjoy their friends, be nice to everyone, be polite, maintain their manners and smile.

There are plenty of years ahead of them to find their own way with their careers. I had to and they will too. I will ensure they have a stable and happy home life and hopefully that'll go some way to make sure they do well with their futures.

i encourage daughter to do well at school and be financially solvent.

i also tell her not to marry a poor man - marry a rich one

Eachpeach - you are so right.
And I don't think it's enough to tell our DDs that they can be who they want to be. I think we have to show them.
How can we tell our girls to reach for the stars if we don't. And I don't mean just in terms of money, I would expect mt DCs to understand that my voluntary work is viatlly important...up there with my paid work.
I also wonder what some women tell their sons...cos let's face it there are going to be few women of the next generation who will be prepared to look after them so they can pursue their career.

Intersdtingly, Fio, among my lesbain mates I don't know one who looks after the other so she can pursue her career. I don't know one who does the bulk of the chores.

I don't have a problem suggesting to my DDs that they do well with their education etc etc...but if either of them wanted to be a SAHM, happily married to someone who is in a well paid secure job....then why should I deter her from this? If either of my daughters is happy with what she has then so be it. They both know I'll (hopefully) always be around for them, support them, help them and be there when they want me to be.

At the end of the day it's their lives, not mine. Happiness comes first in my book, not money, wealth, equality etc. I'm happy with what I've got and stuff what anyone else thinks.

what about a SAHM, happily married to someone who is in a poorly paid secure job

my take on it is have something tangibly yours your career option and i dont just mean keeping a nice house, raising children.
after all they go to school at 5yr old so- what do you do to fill time from 830-3ish until they get home. so yes voluntary work.paid work, studying.

Friend called Charlie....pmsl!
The fundamental issue here is that you spend what you earn..... I mean, it doesn't matter if you earn 10k or 100k you will always live to your means.

You probably have a nice house, and maybe things that you don't consider luxuries that maybe are?
Hair, nails, sky tv, 2 cars, book party here, avon lady there?

If you have these things then your life is already fuller than a great deal of people right now, so maybe a little self -evaluation wouldn't go amiss?
If you don't have any of these things..... I guess your husband may have some secret hobbies like vice or cash burning or an offshore account in cuba??

Poorly paid/well paid - what difference does it make if you can make ends meet and you're happy...who cares? Why does everything boil down to your income? You live according to your means. We do. We budget. And, yes, I'm happy with that. If you can't afford to cope with a poor income then improve on it - get another job, make cutbacks, economise.

only ask as you specifically said "well paid" job in your post!

My situation couldn't be mroe different from whispywhisps, as I'm a single mum and children's Dad was a wanker so I left him and he gives us nothing.

But I@M still in agreement with her. MY mistake was choosing the wrong man. Or reading him wrong.

I will encourage my dd and my ds to work hard towards something they want. Whether thats' doctor, firefighter or nurse and that goes for both of them.

It's true I ended up broke, but I don't see what I as an unqualified low earning woman (to start off with) could have done much differently. I could have not had the children at all and stayed plodding along in my adequate job.

I haven't got much money, but I very much doubt I'll lie on my death bed and wish I'd put the children into childcare and worked every hour god sends just to earn 45,k euro a year instead of 35,k euro a year!

Whispy, good for you and all the others like you that you can enjoy being part of a team and that you have the trust and equality in your marriage to know that it's working.

What's the point raising your children for a life time's hard slog in the office? God that sounds miserable to me.

not all work is a relentless slog you know.if you are lucky it can be enjoyable too

I have an 'equal' marriage in so far as we both take equal responsibility of being parents. I always insist that despite DH having the full-time job he also does his bit as 'Dad' and must find the time to have 1-1 with both the kids. Otherwise they tend to sway towards me when they have something to talk about or come running to me rather than to him. We also split the household duties. I don't see it should always be down to me but obviously, there are some chores that I'm better at than him, ironing be one of them...its a painful experience watching him do the ironing, despite being ex-army, it takes him hours to do the school uniforms for example.

I don't envy single parents one bit. No matter how many hours my DH is away from home - sometimes overnight - I'm always glad when he's back so I can off-load the kids onto him, have someone adult to talk to and talk over the days goings on and get his opinion on things. I have a couple of mates who are single parents - one who was with a complete wanker too - but now got rid, thankfully and she has 4 children. She is lovely - absolutely lovely and relies heavily on her family and friends - me included but I'm glad that I am able to help, even if its just a little bit or even just to be pair of listening ears for her...or on the end of a phone. When I help her I see myself as lucky and not to take what I have for granted which can so easily be the case.

Yes, but work was an endless slog for me, and anything I fancied doing was less well paid actually, eg, midwifery.

I am happier and more content accepting that I will never be a mover/shaker on 100k a year. That would never happen for me, I'd turn myself out trying and just lose the time I have with my children chasing something which doesn't fit me and many others.

Whispy whisp, in a parallel universe, I would have had a happy marriage and it would have been a well oiled team!! I sometimes think of it and push it away, cos it's pointless. But one thing I do know is that in a million years, my parallel universe would never have me leaving my children at creche at 8am and commuting and earning a huge salary. That was never an option (wanted or unwanted) for me!

I'm sure your friend is glad to have you as an ear!