to have said what I did to a perfect stranger in the library?

[Dragonbrandybutter]

This morning I went to the medical library at the hospital to request some journal articles and get some advice from the library staff. The library is open 24hours a day but only staffed during normal working hours. I'm about to start a new job and need to study.

I decided to go this morning with my 18m DS2 while DS1 was at nursery.

DS2 was babbling away while i was looking for the books i wanted, he yelped a bit while i was filling some forms but was quickly entertained with a pen and paper. He wasn't throwing tantrums or being especially loud. The staff said it was fine to have him with me and gave him a teddy to play with and said people do sometimes bring their kids in.

Out of nowhere a bloke walks up to me in one the aisles dressed i think in a nurses shirt and says, 'Do you think it's appropriate to bring children to the library?'

Here's how the conversation went...

nurse: do you think it's appropriate to bring children to the library?

DB: sorry?

nurse: i said do you really think it's appropriate to bring children to the library?

DB: yes, i do, i am just as entitled to access this library as you. i won't be reading here i've just come in to collect what i need then i will study at home.

nurse: well i don't think you should

DB: do you think it's easy to study when you have kids? why don't you go away and mind your own business?

nurse: it's supposed to be quiet, the quiet area is just over there

DB: well go to the quiet area!

nurse: ok, but if i can hear your kid from there...

DB: then you come right back and tell me about it and see if do anything about!

nurse: walks off muttering "no respect"

DB: no, i don't (pmsl, what possessed me to say this bit i don't know, perhaps some pathological need to have the last word)

So, was i assertive or rude or should i just not have been in there at all?

Why does it have to be so difficult to get my career back on track after having kids? Don't people understand that?

I'm agreeing with Morris. I just think your opinion is unreasonable. Children are noisy, and places for study should not be. I think it is silly to say that it is sexist for people to use places for the purpose for which they were intended. I think it is for the person with the child to figure out how to manage that, not for everyone else to have to have their study time disrupted. As a parent I have used academic libraries to study. I would be pissed off if they were full of noisy kids, as I would go there to avoid my own!

YABU. Libraries are (ostensibly at least) designed for study/reading, and are supposed to be quiet.

Just because you have kids does not give you rights above other people. Can't really understand why you're proud of having no respect either tbh . If I took DS (18 months) to one and he disturbed other people I would be ashamed and apologetic.

Quite Fatti.
So would I.
Can't bear this kneejerk 'Yeah us wimmin are so hard done by, everyone must bow down before us and our offspring because y'know, men are selfish pigs' attitude.

Why blame the poor disturbed guy for Dragon imposing her child on a place of study? Where was the the child's father? He sould have been looking after the child if Dragon needed to study.

Was he playing on a DS though?

StayFrosty: 'Maybe some people off this thread ought to get themselves down the library, it might go some way towards improving their reading comprehension.'

Wtf does that mean?? As Moondog said so succinctly,

OP asked if she was unreasonable. I think she was because there was no need to be that rude to someone who is perfectly reasonable to expect quiet in a library.

I don't think libraries should have policies of exclusion. I just don't think people should think it is their right to take children everywhere, and think it is sexist if they can't. Nor do I think that anyone should be rude (apart from the fact that it is often counterproductive).

The OP was in the library long enough for her ds to annoy someone, which was a pity, but I expect she didn't think the forms would take so long. The nurse in question could have been nicer, and the librarians possibly should have thought a bit before saying it was fine for her ds to be noisy whilst she was completing forms (they could have suggested somewhere a bit further from the quiet area to fill in the forms for example).

I do generally expect academic libraries (but not public ones) to be quiet places, and would ask students to pipe down too. My experience of medical libraries is that they are quiet.

Stewie, y'see I'd be mighty pissed off at a group of noisy students too! It was a decade or so ago when I was at university but most users would not think it acceptable to be anything other than respectfully quiet. And those who didn't were told to shut up or get out by the librarian. Particularly in an academic library, surely? Have things changed so much?

I wondered that too (it's been about 10 years for me also)

Ah, my first AIBU thread.

And, i wouldn't have asked if i was BU if I didn't have an inkling that I had been a bit rude. but if someone is rude to me, i will not let them walk off without challenging them on it.

If he had approached me and said, i'm finding it hard to concentrate with your child babbling could you try to keep him quiet, then i would have apologised and said i'm off in a minute.

It was never my intention to be in the library very long. I completed the two forms for books that i need ASAP and picked up a pile of forms for the journals. I had prepared by writing a list but the librarian said i would have to fill out a form for each individual journal, so i thought i'd be better to take it home (as i knew DS would get bored quickly).

I did shoosh DS if he made a noise and i did everything in my power to distract him while me and librarian tried to track down a book which we knew was in the library but neither of us could find it. So the visit took long enough to piss this guy off which was never my intention.

Where was my DH? he has been made redundant and had some work to do which if he can get done quickly then we will have enough income to pay the mortgage next month, which will keep us going til i get paid at the end of december. There is no money for childcare at the moment and we are both working very hard to make sure we don't go under and the childcare is shared equally.

sorry, didn't mean that to end like a sob story, just to say that i had to speak to the librarian in person today. i will be working every day until i start my new job next week (including weekend) and could not have done this at any other time this week.

Academic libraries to me seem quieter than ever. So much can be done on the internet now if you have full journal access that many people who 10 yrs ago would have had to visit in person can now stay at their desk/home.

Back to OP, he sounded really rude but would agree with someone further back that what seems low level babble when you have children probably seems really intrusive when you don't.
I have to remind myself on a weekend that just because I've been up since 6 is no reason that my neighbours would like to hear my hoover at 8:30

I can understand your predicament. But the nurse might have been in a similar place (ie had to pass an exam for a pay rise for example). Stress can make the best of us a little unpleasant at times.

Thanks stayfrosty.
FWIW when i said 'no, i don't' to the respect muttering, and then typed PMSL, well i am laughing at what a stupid response it was. i have no idea what sort of point i was trying to make with it but had got to the point of refusing the guy the last word.
it's pathological.

I can see both points of view. Yes, the nurse was rude and confrontational. There are better ways of asking people to be quiet, which do not result in rows. It sounds as if he was just boiling for a fight and picking a soft target.

However, as someone who is having to use an academic library once a week at the moment, I'm not a fan of whining toddlers in there, either. When you are trying to read sometimes abstract journal articles, sometimes not in your first language, and work out how they relate to what you are doing at the same time, you don't need high-pitched wibblings about bottoms in the background.
I must add that I am intolerant of giggly undergrads and people eating apples too.

I'm starting a new hospital job on Monday too, Dragon. Will we meet in the library, I wonder? I'll be the v quiet one

Thing is, on one hand, we are supposed to be encouraging our children to read, and to progress in education, but then you take them to a library (sometimes even PUBLIC libraries) and there are disapproving looks galore.

Too much intolerance I say.

Children are banned from my uni library. Even if you are just returning a book and only need to go to reception. You have to post your books through a letterbox by the front door.

Unfortunately, this 'no child' rule does not apply to some of the loud, intrusive, and damned annoying undergraduates.

SHUT THE HELL UP- some of us are TRYING to work!! And breathe...