to have said what I did to a perfect stranger in the library?

[Dragonbrandybutter]

This morning I went to the medical library at the hospital to request some journal articles and get some advice from the library staff. The library is open 24hours a day but only staffed during normal working hours. I'm about to start a new job and need to study.

I decided to go this morning with my 18m DS2 while DS1 was at nursery.

DS2 was babbling away while i was looking for the books i wanted, he yelped a bit while i was filling some forms but was quickly entertained with a pen and paper. He wasn't throwing tantrums or being especially loud. The staff said it was fine to have him with me and gave him a teddy to play with and said people do sometimes bring their kids in.

Out of nowhere a bloke walks up to me in one the aisles dressed i think in a nurses shirt and says, 'Do you think it's appropriate to bring children to the library?'

Here's how the conversation went...

nurse: do you think it's appropriate to bring children to the library?

DB: sorry?

nurse: i said do you really think it's appropriate to bring children to the library?

DB: yes, i do, i am just as entitled to access this library as you. i won't be reading here i've just come in to collect what i need then i will study at home.

nurse: well i don't think you should

DB: do you think it's easy to study when you have kids? why don't you go away and mind your own business?

nurse: it's supposed to be quiet, the quiet area is just over there

DB: well go to the quiet area!

nurse: ok, but if i can hear your kid from there...

DB: then you come right back and tell me about it and see if do anything about!

nurse: walks off muttering "no respect"

DB: no, i don't (pmsl, what possessed me to say this bit i don't know, perhaps some pathological need to have the last word)

So, was i assertive or rude or should i just not have been in there at all?

Why does it have to be so difficult to get my career back on track after having kids? Don't people understand that?

Right????
You must be mad.
tHIS IS A PLACE OF WORK NOT A BLOODY kindergarten.
You need to leave your kids at home. Not everyone wants to hear shrieking toddlers when they are working. I would have been far blunter.

Sheesh!

I think children cannot learn how to behave in a situation unless they experience it- how else will your DS know that we're quiet in libraries?
How can exposing a child to books possibly be bad for him?
As long as you were as quick as you could be (which it sounds like you were) there is no reason for complaint.

Oh what bollocks Dittany.

I can't abide women who make bleating excuses.Lets us all down.

Sorry Dragonbrandybutter, but the title of your post is wrong.

There is no way that man was a perfect stranger.

He shouldnt have tackled you about it. If he was really bothered he could have spoken to the librarian, but probably easier to have a go at the mother with the small child.

"The thing is if you are going to exclude women with children from certain places if they can't get childcare for whatever reason, that's sexist,"

sorry but that is absolutely crying sexism where there is none.you don't exclude women with children, you exclude anyone with children.therefore everyone is treated as equal.
surely it is acceptable to have child free areas without it being decreed sexist?

I'm a very vocal feminist but I don't accept that having some places reserved for adults only is sexist.

I have every sympathy for the OP here, but in general I don't think that complaining about noise from kids is an attack on women, it's an attack on inappropriate parenting.

I agree with the poster who made the point that people may feel very differently about child noise in adult places if they had managed to get some precious adult time for themselves only to have it interrupted by other people's (naturally) noisy kids.

I have been known to give noisy kids an annoyed look in some circumstances, and it has never entered my head to consider a parent's child care options. A noisy kid in an adult place is a noisy kid in adult place.

God I wish my uni would have an inclusion policy which lets children in the library - not that I would need to take mine, but the students make enough noise - the odd child would hardly be noticed (except by people who don't like children).
Instead we had a circular going round a few years ago saying we weren't allowed to bring children into our offices for health and safety reasons . Yeah, all those dangerous books and bits of paper lying around.

'Not everyone wants to hear shrieking toddlers when they are working'

And many of us would be quite happy to tolerate them, particularly if it's for a short time, Moondog.

I wonder which of us is in the right, since we have violently opposing views on the subject?

I suggest the answer is that neither of us is, because it's not actually any of our business. It's the librarians who run the place and make the rules, and if they are happy to have a toddler there, that's the end of, as far as I am concerned.

monkey, if the guy had approached the librarian first and complained then there'd be equal outrage about 'going and complaining, being cowardly, not speaking to me first' etc etc.

No, I think dittany has a valid point. It is sexist, because women are by and large left with most of the childcare in our society. So if you ban kids from the library, a lot more women than men will have their access restricted. If men and women took care of children as much as each other, you are right that there would be nothing sexist in insisting on no kids. But that's not the case.

gizmo, if the librarian had asked the OP to leave, would that be end of?

Yes

op, you're not in the wrong, the guy was

I'd have felt sorry for the OP, and I think I'd put some energy into changing the library's policy, but really, this is one of those situations where you've got to balance conflicting needs.

I'm now awaiting my next trip into the library with some trepidation...

can't believe moondog's posts

"You need to leave your kids at home"

who with, the dog?

gizmo, this was the medical library of a hospital, not a local community library, which to my knowlege positively encourage kids of all ages and have long ago abandoned any 'silence' policy.

Ah jeez brandy, i hope that he isnt the charge nurse on the ward that you will be working on! Or worse, sitting on the interview panel of a job interview that you may attend in the future...can you imagine!
I have a wicked WICKED suggestion that if is is indeed in any of these situations, then you say to him "erm, do you mind if i fetch my kids in, im stuck for child care today" LOL I would LOVE to see his smug bloody arrogant face then!

Good on you for telling him!

YANBU...The guy was in the wrong.

The op was not treating the place like a kindergarten, the child was not running around and playing. I'm sure if he was then the librarians would have asked her to leave.

Children so young do have a right to enter libraries for god sake, they can actually learn how to behave that way.

I read recently that a lot of libraries are planning of getting rid of the silence bollocks. I can only find this but I don't think it is just Camden.