to think steralisation should be enforced

[claw3]

on anyone who abuses children?

I think many children whose natural parents have separated do very well, and I know there are stats to prove it. I think there is much to be said for supporting women to avoid potentially abusive boyfriends, but I think equal resources should be put into agencies that attempot to support natural parents to stay together as long as possible if it is at all appropriate.

sterilisation is so expensive. ammo for firing squad much cheaper.

Haven't read the whole thread.

Enforced sterilisation would represent a symptom of living under a fascist regime. Do I want my children to grow up in a society like that?

No thanks...

claw3 on Mon 17-Nov-08 11:33:02
"Any child can break a bone, but its usually a long list of injuries in child abuse cases."

Yes, any child can break a bone, but there are certain conditions which mean a child will constantly be back at the doctor's with big wounds, broken bones or unexplained bruises. With Marfan's and similar it's not that you break one bone once, it's that you keep on having weird injuries.

Dd has a freakish amount of unusual falls because her condition (EDS) affects her balance. Also affects the healing ability of her skin, leads to strange joint pains and makes her incontinent. So you can imagine what that looked like to the consultant...

lol expat

claw - I don't think anyone is putting the adult's human rights above those of the child I certainly don't think I am.

But getting rid of the human rights of someone because they have been found guilty of abusing a child does not automatically reinforce the child's human rights, or those of other children.

If you think that violent retribution for abuse will protect other children, then I think that you are wrong. Imprisonment to protect people from the abuser, and rehabilitation schemes to get them to understand what they have done is wrong, are the way forward. Plus improvements in the way we try to protect children, and in empowering people to recognise and deal with situations before they reach this stage.

lulu - very interesting article about how victims become perpetrators suggesting studies show between 30% and 90% of child abusers were abused. Big discrepancy! But also has interesting stuff about how abuse by a woman is worse (presumably because the women is often the mother so there is no refuge and total betrayal of trust), that the effects are less bad if the child has one safe haven/adult to trust, and that the timing is also important.

Claw - I don't agree with your premise. It's the old, 'do you still beat your wife' question.

It isn't a question of competing human rights. The reason it's scary is that the jurisprudence system is based on having committed a crime, and being punished for that crime.

Are some crimes so abhorent that extraordinary measures need to take place? Why isn't the criminal justice system and sentencing enough?

And that's the question you need to ask yourself. Why are people not reassured by the process so that extra measures are required to ensure that this doesn't happen again.

Claw - for the sake of argument, here's a hypothetical situation -

Young woman from troubled background, gets into drugs, picks up dodgy boyfriend, gets pregnant, can't cope with child, neglects and abuses child. Child taken into care, mother into prison. Drugs rehabilitation, adult education classes, help with self-esteem issues. Comes out of prison a changed person, gets her life in order, meets a nice guy, settles down and raises a family.

Do you really think that society would have been improved by her being forcibly sterilised?

Cory - my ds is currently being diagnosed, possibly SPD, causes poor balance and low pain threshold, he is constantly falling over, so far he has blacked a front tooth, scar on his nose, always full of cuts and bruises etc, etc.

As you say, you seek medical advice, abusers dont. I can appreciate that some medical conditions could be mistaken, but others most definately could not

Baby P was repeatedly taken to the doctor, actually.

I have broken my right ankle 4 times - all as a child.

Do you think I should have been taken into care and my parents sterilised because I was a clumsy oaf?

Amuminscotland - Surely children have the right to be protected. How many chances should we give to abusers?

It wouldn't protect children anyway. And it won't happen. It's just something that some people think about as a suitably sadistic punishment, and I don't even want to enter into this particular fantasy. Why not go and watch Saw or something instead?

Ren - Very good point, i do believe that most people deserve a second chance. However in severe cases of child abuse, i dont believe a prison sentence is enough. Every human has a right to have children and every child has a right to be protected. Abusers have abused that right

Claw, I know it's already been said, but the smiley face at the end of your posts is really irksome. And completely inappropriate given their content.

oh for crying out loud
leave it with the smileys
SO inappropriate

And I'm sorry if that makes you feel that I am picking on you, but can't you see it is inappropriate to at the end of a sentence like that?

but claw, what would society would we be if we could forcibly aneasthatise and sterilise people? where does it end? do you want to live in a fascist state? that would have huge implications for us all, law abiding or not

x post

I think they should just be put up against a wall and shot.

[I don't but was just trying to demonstrate how the content of a post could be wildly different to the happy emotion indicated by the smiley].

It's so passive aggressive

so many threads to hide-so little left to read.

Actually I think what I really would like to see would be an extensive advertising/awareness campaign aimed at men. Real Men Don't Abuse WOmen and Children. How's that for a slogan? Because while I do think that (as I said) women should be educated to better detect abusers and not put up with them, the responsibility for some men's abusive behaviour rests with those men and it is about time that publicity campaigns etc started from the premise that men's behaviour is wrong and needs to change, not just that women need to get better at placating men and protecting themselves from men.