to claim compensation from the NHS over birth experience?

[neededtochangenameforthis]

I have changed name for this. I am a long long standing mumsnet member and not a troll.

I had my third baby a few months ago. The experience (in common with so many other women sadly) was dire. My baby ended up in SCBU which I partly attribute to the negligence around the birth (c-section) and non-diagnosis of breech position. I ended up with a severe (you would not believe how severe if you did not see the pics) allergic BURN from the surgical drape despite telling them that similar had happened before and not to use anything that was sticky on my skin. I was not given the anti-d injection despite being rehsus positive and my baby being rehsus negative. It was only on day 10 when I was the one who realised that it had not been given and literally chased up and down the hospital from floor to floor to ask someone to give it to me that it was finally done. This is just the highlights - there is of course more.

I thought about making a complaint at the time and life just got in the way. We were then issued with a bill for the one night I spent in a private room (laughable that they could call it that) at £150 for the night! I was in a private room because a doctor said that I MUST lay with entire nether region exposed (due to allergic burn) or there would be severe risk of infection if it did not dry out. This was on a ward with men walking past all the time. Even with the curtains closed, the fans (it was boiling hot) kept blowing them open and people kept brushing against the curtains and opening them. We (dh and I) said again and again that this was not a suitable environment for me to do this. In the end, they finally agreed to put in me in the private room (but with door propped open!).

Anyhow, this bill prompted my dh to write and complain about everything and to ask for compensation for which we would offset the bill for the private room. They immediately agreed to cancel the bill. He wants to take it further now. He works in insurance himself and works with someone who used to be part of the NHS claims department who said they would cancel the bill straight away in an attempt to make us go away.

Part of me wants to as well. It was hell and people should not be treated like this. It has also put me off ever having another baby. Partly as I am worried about the risk from not having been given the anti-d in time, and partly because I could never go through that experience again. They have no right to have put me in a place where I am actually saying no to more kids.

However, part of me says that any compensation I claim will just come out of the already overstretched NHS pot and will only lead to worse treatment for others in even more overstratched hospitals.

So, am I being unreasonable to want to claim compensation? (and I realise this may kick off which is one of the reasons I namechanged)

'I would have kept going back again and again until I got the result required.
' (sorry really not picking on you- just had to go bath kids)

I was admitted more than ten times, each time discharged until I ended up fitting. I have 2 years of nurse training under my belt but the only test that could show there was an issue- a scan, for iugr- asnt offered.

A lot of medical issues in pg are symptomless

Anyway.

A friend (or rather someone I used to know) got over a million for negligence, I doubt anyone would begrudge a penny as the birth caused very severe cp for the child and the death of the mum, but for them it took 11 years iirc- that's an awfuul long time to be caught up in the heel if its not a lifelong care matter.

Another friend chose not to sue with a good case (MW prevented her admission at 25 weeks with ctx and a premmie birth history X 2, lost baby after 2 hours )- becuase she didnt want it hanging over her for so long and felt the family needed to remember the god times, and those two hours, and focus on the future not some legal stuff. She of course had no care costs (and has gone on to have a lovely full term daughter)

Gillyan- have a look at the aims website and chat to them about your options; I have no idea if a HB would be dangerous for you but past comlpications dont rule one out entirely- I had one after AIMs helped me get one. Even if not, they are fantastic with advice (assocaition for improvements in maternity)- in fact that site will be great for many posters, will go find. Theres another too hang on

aims

birth trauma

Wow the OP's had a hrd time on this thread
Do you not think number of cases brought against them is an indicator the trust (and PCT) that they're getting it wrong?
Oh and just because other people have it worse doesn't mean we should like it or lump it - this is PAID FOR not free.
Agree with Hedgewitch - sue and then donate it to SCBU.

Sounds to me like you're not after money but after reassurance that this will not happen again and that your experience is valued.

Maybe there are other routes you could go down. For example many hospitals have a Maternity Liaison Services committee who feed back from servicde users to hospital.

I would spend your time and efforts on making them aware rather than chasing money which, as I said, I feel is what you really want.

I'm sorry it was crap. I had a midwife who behaved very badly to be and a baby photogreapher on the ward had a habit of handling the babies withoutn washing hands etc. I went as a 'service user' rep to the MLS cmmitte and they gave the midwife training in how to deal with people in trauma and the photographer now has to wear protective clothing etc.

Change should be possibl w without suing it just involves nagging lots of people.

Best of luck. Sorry your experience was crap. Birth is hard bu there really should be no need for your poorly burn and getting a bill. Hope all is ok now

I second MP

And while I agree with what KatyDD says half the time, the other half is a tad too biased for me. Abuses of power happen anywhere and everywherethat people have power to abuse - that includes labour wards. Complaining and culpability keep instances of this down. Complaining properly is one of the safeguards of our society. Criminals, sadists or just people who can't be arsed that day don't wear badges that allow you to recognose them and human suffering occurs in places with running water too.

Someone mentioned the cleanliness of the wards. There should be contact details of how to reach the cleaners/managers who service the wards - these are often contracted out and they get jumped on by the Trust with both feet (or they do at my hospital). I would strongly advise anyone to complain LOUDLY if wards are dirty or there are bodily fluids spilt since there are obvious health implications. Sometimes they are environmental issues (in that a wall may need repainting but it is clean but doesn't look it) but if it's a case of the cleaners not doing their job then the contractors ought to know so they can do something about that person. I have to say that at the hosp I work in the Maternity areas are kept spotless (I see the monthly stats) and there are very few issues with the cleaniness part of it even though the hospital is relatively old.

peachyandthesucklingbas thanks for that, not got time to look now but definately will when I got a min, it looks really interesting

"The hospital insurance is going to go up if they keep getting claims against it, or maybe they'll make Doctors get their own insurance ? Either way, we will all pay if it the claims continue against the NHS."

I entirely disagree with this statement. Hospitals make mistakes. Doctors make mistakes. Midwives make mistakes. They are also variously caring, overworked, lazy, negligent, complacent. If you don't complain, and obtain financial compensation, the lazy, complacent and negligent minority (for they must undoubtedly exist) will not get identified and they will not be stopped.

Good luck to you.

And what will be the end result of demanding compensation ?
I always laugh when people say the NHS is not free it's paid for by my taxes because the truth is I personally have had a million pound heart op and three babies on the NHS chances are whatever I (or my DH) pay in tax and NI I will never repay them for what they have done for me.

Complain away but financial gain ? Every time I saw the news about cut backs I'd feel guilty.

Where institutions have to shell out money, they look at the root causes and try to manage their financial risks by making improvements in their procedures. That's why it is important to make claims actually.

In fact, I think that apologies and promises of retraining can be quite empty.

How can money equate to stress?

You had a shit time and need an apology and to find out how the hell it happened, perhaps to feel more certain it won't happen again but claiming money makes no sense and to be honest it always seems greedy.

As one of the solicitors pointed out if she sues they will close ranks and she will get nothing and her case isn't actually very strong anyway.
If she goes for an apology she won't get that because it's an admission of guilt and could lead to being sued so really complaining is the only option available.

I don't know what you mean by close ranks. It's not a legal term I am familiar with. Personal injury is not my field but from general legal knowledge I would doubt that the claim would be worth much in terms of financial compensation.

Notwithstanding the above, I think it is important that any claim that may exist should be made.

I disagree that the OP wouldn't necessarily get an apology - a friend of mine (elderly) had a very bad experience over her knee operation and was given the wrong anaesthetic by a very arrogant anaesthetist, who made her very angry (by his attitude) just prior to going in for surgery, not a good idea.

She wrote a polite complaint letter to the chief exec and got a fulsome apology back, with promises of re-training etc. Who knows whether or not the re-training occurred, but she got acknowledgement of her complaint and the apology she sought.

YANBU - from previous experience in NHS, it is the cases that go to litigation that are the catalyst for genuine change in policy in hospital

I had an apology - in person - from the anaesthetist who caused me damage. I met him and his senior colleague, who assured me that he was undergoing more rigorous training. I also had the opportunity to tell the anaesthetist how he had made me feel with his arrogant comments and he apologised unreservedly. It laid a lot of ghosts to rest for me and I could tell that he had learned a lesson. No amount of money could have done that for me or him. There are times when compensation is the right thing but IMO my case was not one of them.

Well that's brilliant, as you say money wouldn't have made you feel better but the meeting did so a good result.

This is an interesting paper.

national audit office

It was published in 2001, and at that point for claims settled for under £50,000, in 65% of cases legal and other fees exceeded the amount of the settlement.

Obviously not an ideal situation, but I would hesitate to advise someone to sue and donate the money to SCBU when there is a very real chance they could end up out of pocket themselves.

Changed name - It's a tough call. I had a horrendous time with DD. I also have a latex allergy and fortunately my partner was there to remind the midwives and doctors despite it being written in my notes and wearing a red bracelet with 'latex allergy'

I won't go into the details of DD's birth, but when I was back for DS's birth, someone let it slip that in fact there had been an internal inquiry.

The reason I didn't make a complaint is that I would have to revisit the incident over and over again, and I decided that it was preventing me from bonding with DD.

I think you need to think about what it is that you want to accomplish. It's fairly clear that you don't want the money for money sake.

I had my third section last year and the midwives were asking people to make complaints so that the gods that are would take them seriously.

Midwifery care has seriously deteriorated from 10 years ago

I think you should aim for an apology. It is likely to be much quicker than sueing for money- and the financial risks are far less, but it may help with your healing. I had a bad experience with dd's care years ago (not maternity hospital- they were brilliant!), and I think I would have reached closure far sooner if I had had some sort of public acknowledgment of the stress caused.

Some years ago I complained after an nhs orthodontist was so nasty to my sn ds during a multidisiplinery cleft palate clinic that my ds was reduced to tears. Ds was about 10 at the time. I spoke to someone else present at the clinic before I complained to make sure I wasn't being a PFB oversensitive parent. She agreed that the orthodontist had indeed treated my ds very badly. The outcome of my complaint was that he said he was no longer happy to treat my ds but if I insisted he would "place him at the end of his very long waiting list". I know I could have taken it further but by that time I wouldn't have let him anywhere near my ds anyway and then his care was transferred to another hospital (as part of a general reorganisation of services) so I let it go.