to claim compensation from the NHS over birth experience?

[neededtochangenameforthis]

I have changed name for this. I am a long long standing mumsnet member and not a troll.

I had my third baby a few months ago. The experience (in common with so many other women sadly) was dire. My baby ended up in SCBU which I partly attribute to the negligence around the birth (c-section) and non-diagnosis of breech position. I ended up with a severe (you would not believe how severe if you did not see the pics) allergic BURN from the surgical drape despite telling them that similar had happened before and not to use anything that was sticky on my skin. I was not given the anti-d injection despite being rehsus positive and my baby being rehsus negative. It was only on day 10 when I was the one who realised that it had not been given and literally chased up and down the hospital from floor to floor to ask someone to give it to me that it was finally done. This is just the highlights - there is of course more.

I thought about making a complaint at the time and life just got in the way. We were then issued with a bill for the one night I spent in a private room (laughable that they could call it that) at £150 for the night! I was in a private room because a doctor said that I MUST lay with entire nether region exposed (due to allergic burn) or there would be severe risk of infection if it did not dry out. This was on a ward with men walking past all the time. Even with the curtains closed, the fans (it was boiling hot) kept blowing them open and people kept brushing against the curtains and opening them. We (dh and I) said again and again that this was not a suitable environment for me to do this. In the end, they finally agreed to put in me in the private room (but with door propped open!).

Anyhow, this bill prompted my dh to write and complain about everything and to ask for compensation for which we would offset the bill for the private room. They immediately agreed to cancel the bill. He wants to take it further now. He works in insurance himself and works with someone who used to be part of the NHS claims department who said they would cancel the bill straight away in an attempt to make us go away.

Part of me wants to as well. It was hell and people should not be treated like this. It has also put me off ever having another baby. Partly as I am worried about the risk from not having been given the anti-d in time, and partly because I could never go through that experience again. They have no right to have put me in a place where I am actually saying no to more kids.

However, part of me says that any compensation I claim will just come out of the already overstretched NHS pot and will only lead to worse treatment for others in even more overstratched hospitals.

So, am I being unreasonable to want to claim compensation? (and I realise this may kick off which is one of the reasons I namechanged)

I'm sorry none of us have a fucking clue what a bad birthing experience is because we give birth in hospitals with medical staff and running water and clean bedding.
I would write to them explaining why and where they can stick their bill but if you don't think you need counselling then move on.
Shit happens when you give birth, it's out of our control the staff do the best they can.
If the compensation doesn't come from the hospital funding itself then it comes from another government source the fact is it'll be funded by tax payers one way or another.
If you or your child were disabled in some way as a result I'd agree but I don't think your entitled to anything in this situation, of course the law may disagree.

Bubble went through worse than this (one of her twin babies died) She pushed for change and education.

I came very close to dying after DS was born, I had PPCM (Post Partum Cardiomyopathy) it was undiagnosed. I won't bore you with the details, but education and re training was enough for me.

I am not of the ambulance chasing culture, but each to their own.

Personally I am appalled by the 'lots of women have bad birth experiences deal with it' attitude.

If that many women are suffering that much, let's do something about it! Nothing will change if no one complains. Write the hospital, write the PM. Write the papers. Get the word out that ante and post natal care needs to change.

You can't change anything if you just shrug your shoulders and say 'oh well, that's just the way it is'.

What if the suffragettes had done that? Or the homosexuals who started the stonewall riots? or Rosa Parks?

Then none of us would be able to vote. Homosexuality would still be a crime. And people of colour would still sit at the back of the bus.

Personally I would be looking for an apology not compensation. From what you have said there have been serious oversights in aspects of your care which need to be brought to the attention of the hospital management. You can debrief with a supervisor of midwives. You should be able to contact one through the maternity unit.

Sadly your experience does not seem to be isolated and until you bring these shortfalls to the attention of relevent persons then resources will not be put in place to stop these things from happening to other women.

Cargirl - I was thinking 'Is it St. Peters when I read the OP'!!

The last baby I had there was induced and in my bay of six beds there were three women (including me) who almost gave birth on the ward because they did not have enough midwives to deal with the inductions they had started of and the other women turning up in labour.

Needtonamechangeforthis - don't accept being fobbed of. Sounds like they really need to make some changes.

I had a very bad birth experience too, with long term nerve damage to my foot and legs due to a negligent anaesthaetist. I was very ill for a while and it traumatised me. Several people I know tried to get me to claim compensation but in the end I decided that I could not do it. Unless you have lost out financially or will need ongoing treatments that cost you in cash or loss of earnings, what good will money do for you or other women? It won't change what happened. If you truly want to improve things then let the hospital keep the cash and complain complain complain to anyone who will listen and make sure that the hospital issue and join or at least write to the Maternity Services Liaison Committee, the Chief Executive of the hospital, the PCT, the local newspapers etc etc.

I can't help but think that money is no compensation at all for what you and others like us have been through.

Write yes. Demand an apology, yes. Refuse to pay the private room bill, yes. But if you insist on compensation, I think you are being unreasonable, personally.

Sadly sometimes litigation is the only way to make the chief exec take notice. He or she has probably been merrily ignoring maternity services, not bothering to recruit enough midwives or ensure the system is safe.

IMO, there would be little point in suing here. unless the OP or her baby have suffered lasting avoidable injury, in which case, she should really see a lawyer specialising in medical negligence.
I know other women have had worse , more terrifying, horrifying and tragic outcomes, it does not mean that the OP or other womne are not allowed to feel upset/ traumatised or distressed by their individual experiences. i am so sorry for both yours and Bubble99's terrible experiences.

that should have been the hospital issue a formal apology...stupid laptop keyboard.

agree with Lulu and 2shoes - the legal process can take years, and your claim may not be worth all that much, depending on how serious the burn was and any ongoing problems you have from the burn. Good luck whichever way you decide to deal with this.

My dh feels that we are due compensation for what really was appalling suffering at the time for our whole family. He also feels that there are longer term health implications.

For me, a sincere apology and changes would probably be enough. But I honestly don't believe that changes would be made. What they need are more staff. And is that actually likely?

Funnily enough, I actually met with some of the midwifery management team while I was pregnant (through an unrelated reason) and talked about being a lay person on their midwife liason committee. I think at the time they thought I was too outspoken and have not contacted me since. In the postnatal week when I was running around the hospital back and forth to SCBU, I ran into one of those women. I said at the time that I was unhappy with aspects of my care and she promised to get the head lady to contact me. It never happened.

I think the money is irrelevant to you, but might make them change their policies or tighten up what's already there.

Shocking story and someone needs to take it seriously or you could argue that it is more likely to happen to someone else agan. As someone said, the compensation wouldn't come out of the same place as NHS funds iyswim. (afaik)

I think they need to take notice and if you think sueing them would do this then fgs do it.

I'd not want the cash myself but would want them to pay it iyswim. if it meant they were more careful in future - sadly though I don't know if there's much chance they can do anything given the lack of resources

you can contact teh MSLC yourself, the chair will be an independent lay person, I chaired one for 2 years, they only meet quarterly though.

you should write to the HoM, and the chief exec of the PCT as a starting point

Do you think a big wodge of money is going to make the pain go away then?

I second the working towards change.

I hate the compensation culture, the NHS is struggling under the strain of this and if the number of claims continues at the current rate it will go under.

Try living in the USA and see if you would prefer their crippling medical bills instead, as that is what will happen if the NHS is destroyed through compensation claims.

If the NHS has done something to you that has meant you or your child need money in order to help you with care or equiptment, then I could understand claiming compensation.

otherwise you are just depleting the NHS of resources which harms everyone.

'I'm sorry none of us have a fucking clue what a bad birthing experience is because we give birth in hospitals with medical staff and running water and clean bedding.' thats clearly crap when children die and mothers die as a result of negligence. Thank bloody goodness we have the care we do indeed and its rare, but we knoe that it happens. Bubbles experience proves you comlpetely wrong for a start!

I'm not sure I would claim, mainly because I would not want to turn this into a indefinite 'phantom' hanging over me. That said, I would complain (actually I didnt have the guts to but I would certainly recommend you complain and I would now, iyswim). I would also insist on them arranging counselling for PTSD.

Congrats on your baby

But when it does happen and it's negliant then that's a whole different kettle of fish. A bad birth experience ?? Bollox, none of it's fun it is but we do have care and medical intervention when we need it and lives are saved because of it, start chipping away at the NHS's resources in this way and it'll be compromised.

As i said, if you do complain, please go through the Community Health Council. They are terrific.

Thats not at all what you said and the money comes from insdurers nt the HS I believe?

not that I am advocating suing either but it really isn't what you posted. The NHS did save my life but their mistakes made my birth and ds1's far more risky than it should havebeen (put eclampsia down toa nxiety ffs) and caused far more long term problems- a proper medical intervention C-s at 38 weeks would have avoided it all and was medically indicated.

The depression I had afterwards as a result, the fail;ure to thrive baby who lost 1 lb in utero, even maybe just maybe (cannot prove) his SN might have been avoided

#So yes I know what a bad birth is!

And I know what 3 good ones are like and am grateful but that doesn't change the former at all.

Unless you have long term damage you would be very unlikely to get much in way of compensation.

You would need a solicitor who specializes in medical negligence, have to agree how to fund it, they will then get all the notes and you will pay for them to be reviewed by an independent expert. This takes 1 or 2 years. The expert would then advise on how strong a case you had.

Throughout my pregnancy I educated myself as to what could possibly go wrong and had I had symptons or even just a funny feeling I would have kept going back again and again until I got the result required.
Doctors are only human, they get things wrong, but they get things right too and save lives.
The hospital insurance is going to go up if they keep getting claims against it, or maybe they'll make Doctors get their own insurance ? Either way, we will all pay if it the claims continue against the NHS.

so, when should people be 'allowed' to claim?

at the end of the day, based on what the OP has said, it is unlikely she would get very far, and if a case was brought, damages would not be a huge wodge of money even if awarded.

i think if someone is so upset, they are considering suing, it is worth looking at other avenues to pursue. i.e a formal complaint etc

In the event of somebody loosing a child or being permanently disabled as a result of negligence of course compensation is appropriate. Beyond that I really think it's morally wrong to be sueing a hospital or school (which happens in the states), where does it end ?

what if the disability is not permanent? what if mental harm is caused?

i think this is not an appropriate thing to sue over, but i can understand the upset and the desire for some answers/ apology/ change in training etc....

there are so many shades of grey