to claim compensation from the NHS over birth experience?

[neededtochangenameforthis]

I have changed name for this. I am a long long standing mumsnet member and not a troll.

I had my third baby a few months ago. The experience (in common with so many other women sadly) was dire. My baby ended up in SCBU which I partly attribute to the negligence around the birth (c-section) and non-diagnosis of breech position. I ended up with a severe (you would not believe how severe if you did not see the pics) allergic BURN from the surgical drape despite telling them that similar had happened before and not to use anything that was sticky on my skin. I was not given the anti-d injection despite being rehsus positive and my baby being rehsus negative. It was only on day 10 when I was the one who realised that it had not been given and literally chased up and down the hospital from floor to floor to ask someone to give it to me that it was finally done. This is just the highlights - there is of course more.

I thought about making a complaint at the time and life just got in the way. We were then issued with a bill for the one night I spent in a private room (laughable that they could call it that) at £150 for the night! I was in a private room because a doctor said that I MUST lay with entire nether region exposed (due to allergic burn) or there would be severe risk of infection if it did not dry out. This was on a ward with men walking past all the time. Even with the curtains closed, the fans (it was boiling hot) kept blowing them open and people kept brushing against the curtains and opening them. We (dh and I) said again and again that this was not a suitable environment for me to do this. In the end, they finally agreed to put in me in the private room (but with door propped open!).

Anyhow, this bill prompted my dh to write and complain about everything and to ask for compensation for which we would offset the bill for the private room. They immediately agreed to cancel the bill. He wants to take it further now. He works in insurance himself and works with someone who used to be part of the NHS claims department who said they would cancel the bill straight away in an attempt to make us go away.

Part of me wants to as well. It was hell and people should not be treated like this. It has also put me off ever having another baby. Partly as I am worried about the risk from not having been given the anti-d in time, and partly because I could never go through that experience again. They have no right to have put me in a place where I am actually saying no to more kids.

However, part of me says that any compensation I claim will just come out of the already overstretched NHS pot and will only lead to worse treatment for others in even more overstratched hospitals.

So, am I being unreasonable to want to claim compensation? (and I realise this may kick off which is one of the reasons I namechanged)

i am totaly against the litigious (sp?) culture that we seem to be adopting from the states BUT having said that I think that in cases like this where the doctors/nurses have clearly been negligent then people should complain and if compensation is awarded so be it. If this kind of unacceptable situation is just accepted by citizens then nothing will ever get better - and failing to give anti D could be life threatening for any future children a R- person has - so not a trivial matter.

What I can't abide is things like when people trip over a cobble stone and then sue the council...

KatieDD - drs already pay large sums to things like the medical protection society each year to help cover poss insurance issues.

OP - sorry to hear what a rotten time you had. Not sure money will solve anything but def make a full complaint - forcing things to be re-assessed and reviewed is never a bad thing and may help someone else in the future avoid the same dire care.

I agree with vjg13. You would need to seek legal advice, but from what you have written this doesnt sound like you would get a great deal of money, especially not when you have paid your solicitors fees.

For your rhesus negative status it would be possible to check your blood in the future to determine if you have developed antibodies.

I wonder if part of the delay in you hearing from the hospital might be that they have only heard from your husband (unless you sent in your consent with his letter), and they might feel unable to act further without your agreement?
It might be worth writing and complaining on your own behalf if you want an apology or an explanation, in case the fact that the letter was from your husband has delayed things.

I'm pretty shocked by your opinions, KatieDD. Of course, you are entitled to them.

I think the standards of post-natal care in this country are pretty dire. My son was unharmed by the emergency c-section, but I was left to rot in a bed. I called for pain relief but was told that I didn't need any, despite my obvious discomfort.

A day later, despite the ward being uncomfortably hot, I started to shiver uncontrollably and felt faint. The registrar was called to see me, asked me a few questions and told me I was fine. As soon as she left I called the midwife and told her my symptoms. I was immediately hooked up to an antibiotic drip for 24 hours on the insistence of the midwife, who incidentally was the only one to give me pain relief. I was moved in a private room because of the post op infection.

The drip was changed several times, and my sheets were unchanged, despite the blood from the drip.

The showers were filthy, and were not cleaned for 48 hours. I know this because when I gingerly stepped my way through the mess I spotted a splattering of blood that remained there for 48 hours.

When I mentioned this to the midwives I was told they were not responsible for the cleaning and they laughed that maybe it was time for me to leave if I had time to inspect the facilities.

All this is pretty minor compared to what others have experienced. I am very annoyed that I didn't address my concerns at the time, but I felt too weak to do so. Now I worry about the birth of my 2nd child in a few months and how we'll cope back at that hospital.

I think you should complain. Personally, I wouldn't be looking for financial compensation unless I'd suffered financial loss or hardship. But a change to the way things are done needs to happen, and for that to happen we need to make our views heard.

I was not given anti-D following amniocentesis with my dd. I am Rh neg, my dd Rh pos.

I fell and hurt my back and sustained 2 fractures L3 and L5. These where undiagnosed by a SHO in A&E. I found out by accident 3 weeks after the x-ray.

Would I sue? No. Working in the NHS, I know how pushed clinicians are. No one willingly hurts another person. I feel that this country is becoming like the USA - sue crazy.

There are only limited budgets available to the NHS. Instead of moaning, we should be advocating for safer staffing levels, better facilities etc.

If the OP wants to sue, that is up to her. But sueing will not change the system.

I can appreciate how frustrated you are about your treatment, I was treated appallingly after a c section also, and I saw other women, some not as forward as myself be treated just as badly.

If you want to sue, then that is your right. Some may say its not right, but my thoughts are, sometimes complaining isn't enough, it has to hit there pockets to make sure they initiate change, if not for the welfare of the patients but for the welfare of there pockets.

Do what you think is right, and you cant go wrong.

llareggub - did you really not complain at the time ?
I discharged myself after 6 hours because the woman in the bed opposite me had her husband and three year old playing with a car loudly all afternoon and I couldn't rest but I made sure the staff nurse knew why I was going to sort it out for the others in the ward.

My cousins baby was diagnosed in the womb with turners syndrome, she was advised and indeed did abort at 20 weeks. The baby was perfect, what good would sueing do, she made a decision as did the doctors with the best information available at the time.
No medical staff would deliberately hurt you (well apart from the ones who are criminals before some smarty pants chips in with that), complain away, push until you get an apology but sueing is poor form in my opinion.

KatieDD - think you're approach is a little too black and white - it's not always easy to complain at the time things happen and it can be hard partic for first timers to really know what is ok and what's not. Think with all hormones etc people not always as clear headed as they might be at the time. Also medical staff can be pretty intimidating at times and not everyone finds that easy to stand up to.

that is why it is called medical negligence, not medical i did it on purposeness...

I think that pressing for compensation serves a valuable service in driving improvement in the NHS.

No, I really didn't. I felt far too weak in hospital, and by the time I felt up to it I concentrated all of my energies on getting out of there, culminating in me discharging us at 11pm.

When I was finally out of there I just wanted to put it behind me. DS was still jaundiced and I had to chase the Health Visitor and the midwives to come out to us. It seems no one had been told that we existed! I had weeks of post-op infections to get through, a breastfeeding challenge and various other personal issues.

I am going to discuss my concerns with my new midwife and my lovely consultant, and see what they have to say. I'd love a homebirth, but it is unlikely given my history. So we'll see. If it all goes badly this time I will definitely be making a complaint.

Take the matter further for a review in procedures yes, but suing would be a no for me.

Doctors and nurses work tirelessly to save lives and make people better. They are human and occasionally mistakes are made. You and your baby are healthy and surely thats all that matters. Be thankful we have access to free medical help, it may not always be free if money is diverted away from the NHS.

I had a CS and an awful reaction to the plaster they used on my wound despite my notes saying I was allergic. However, despite of my discomfort, I was just grateful that they had delivered DS safely as he was in distress.

We are becoming more and more like the US everyday when it comes to shouting for compensation.

You can always sue and then donate the money back the SCBU

I would pursue the formal complaints procedure - that will result in change, if you demand it (and your demands are reasonable and justified).

Firstly, the NHS is not a free service. We pay for it through out NI and taxes.

But I still disagree with sueing here and there. No amount of sueing will increase staff levels. I know, I work at the coal face.

The Managers do not give a damn about patient care. They are just bothered by government targets. Patients are crying out for painkillers, but you can bet your bottom dollar the nurses/midwives will be making beds to take new patients - the government targets come before patient care.

We, the great British public have allowed this to happen. So do not be surprised that we have a NHS that gives such poor patient care/patient experiences.

Yes I agree - it was much better when there were no targets and you have to wait a couple of years to see someone

And the levels of infection were down.

Enough staff to look after patients.

Enough beds for patients.

Am not saying all targets are bad. Just the targets that are put in place by non clinicians in clinical areas.

I don't think you should demand compensation at all - I do however totally sympathise as I had an awful experience in hospital too - I too was going to complain and life got in the way. I have just seen my midwife for the first time for my second PG and told her everything - she was appaled and said I should of complained. I am totally terrifed about going back into hospital for next birth but as I had complications last time I'm not allowed a HB and may have to have C-sect yet.

I only say you shouldn't demand compensation becuase what would it achieve - A whole hearted apology and some kind acknowledgement for the awful care you were given sounds better to me along with some sort of review of the hospitals care systems- but that is just my opinion - hope you are okay now

i fail to see what compensation will give you

How can money compensate for that?

I think asking for an interal investigation and a formal written apology would be better personally.

I think it does help if people complain and sue, because a critical mass of these incidents makes managers, Chief Execs and politicians sit up and take notice.

I also think there are circumstances in NHS hospitals when staff are truly unprofessional or fail to communicate properly, and therefore need a radical kick up the backside.

However I don't think people should keep the compensation that they win unless they need it to pay for extra treatment or care as a result of a catastrophic adverse incident of some kind.

I would complain and threaten to sue if I was the OP, and see what happened next.

btw it is clinical negligence not medical these days

aaah, tis many years since i opened a law textbook...

llareggub ....sadly your experience is not confined to post natal wards. I could write more horror stories about the gastro surgical ward my dh was on following major abdominal surgery for bowel cancer than I'm sure any of you have the will power to read.
And he was stuck in there for a month first time and again six months later for two weeks. During his second admission he was the only person to leave the six bed bay he was in alive!!

kiddiz, unfortunately I can believe it. Luckily for me I have no experience of hospital life beyond the post-natal wards.

lulumama - I agree wholeheartedly. Just because they didn't do it on purpose does not mean it is okay.

I sort of feel uncomfortable with the whole issue of compensation culture but at the end of the day maybe Quattrocento is right - this is what they need to start actually changing the problems in the NHS to prevent more payouts.

We are lucky, yes, to have the NHS - ectremely lucky. But that should not mean that we have to accept shoddy treatment and care from them!