To be sick of little girls being portrayed as angels and little boys as devils-in-disguise?

[mm22bys]

I got a brochure today about a company that sells toiletries for children.

The name of said-company?

HalosnHorns

(Halos in pink, and horns in blue).

Why are little boys always portrayed as imps, devils, trouble-makers, etc, etc, etc?

It's no wonder so many grow up with low self-esteem, alot of their behaviour must just be like a self-fulfilling prophecy!

Rant over.

I don't think you can ever justify violence dandylioness. The sort of behaviour I find myself having to constantly apologise for in my boys is more likely to be of the noisy, jumping around, leaping off things, throwing, shouting sort of stuff. Fundamentally harmless but exhausting.

Have not had time to read the whole thread yet, but just thought I'd throw this one in: my ds (3.10) came home from pre-school today saying they (the staff) are going to dress him in a skirt tomorrow. "Why?" I ask, somewhat perplexed, "Because I talk too much." Obviously, he completely didn't get it, because he then went on to say that he'd asked them to make sure it was a "Power Rangers skirt".

dandy - there is also a tendency in some parents of boys to almost like to see them being violent because that makes them 'real boys'. I know a few of them. A very few thankfully.

hey, DL enough with saying my argument was that mothers of boys would agree with OP, not what i said at at all! I asked, out of interest, whether this was what was happening, I did not argue this should be the case!

Also, I think it's simplistic as has been done on here at times to dismiss those of us who've argued that boys do/need to play & behave differently as being caught up in gender stereotypes. That's taking being PC to an extreme. Of course personality differences count too, of course you get quieter boys, boisterous girls etc etc.

Omrian, IKwym about feeling the need to constantly apologise for what is actually normal boy behaviour. It's that I was protesting about - anyone read Fay Weldon & co on the feminisation of society? A serious problem imho.

Actually, I think that boys get the better deal when it comes to role play / dressing up.

Girls are expected to be fairies or princesses and that's about it. Boys get to wear all the fun costumes - pirates, cowboys etc.

YANBU. I think a lot of is down to increased sterotyping on all levels these days - everything for girls is pink and fluffy and princesses; everything for boys is blue with pirates or camoflage. If you think back to 20 years ago, children's clothing was available in a much wider range of colours, and toys were not so stereotyped.

Ah, we've got to the 'Political correctness gone mad' shibboleth to defend gender stereotypes.

There is nothing i hate more than when i open up a catalogue to find a little boy with a tool bench and a girl in a kitchen or cleaning ect. Makes me so mad.

I have 2 boys but i also have several nieces and i have found the boys are happy to have dolly's/kitchens and ds1 has a fairy dressing up costume and the girls like trucks/trains/tools ect.

MI - it's my view and what i see from my own experience with my sons and their friends. You're welcome to yours but don't sweep my opinion away like that!

Oh well, those who worry that boys are being subjected to over-feminisation of society will no doubt be cheered by today's news that the UK has just slipped further down global gender equality league.

www.guardian.co.uk/society/2008/nov/13/gener-equality-pay-gap-europe

Down to 81st place in the rankings for equal pay.

Cheering news for the mothers of boys perhaps.

And don't get me started on gender divisions of housework...I do worry I am raising my beautiful, fierce clever little girls to do badly paid jobs and some bloke's washing for him. Angelically, of course.

that;s concerning, fennel. I am still concerned for how boys fare at school and in society while young. It obviously changes hugely in the adult world.

not particularly cheering for this mother of boys fennel, they're too young to send out to work and we need the lolly NOW

YANBU

Now I buy those ytoiletries because they're all ds4 can seem to tolerate but....

It's everywhere; t-shirts (princess or little monster), and those traits previously thought f as boyish seem to be devalued by society these days- once an active xchild was a great ting; now its a problem because they need to sit at their sdesk 5 hours a day.

Ours chool has a massive problem with bioys behaviour, not coincidentally this started with the reduction of lunchtime from 1.5 hours to 45 minutes. Is it really that ahrd for supposedly intellient people to see the link?

Boys and girls are not the same (although the traits interchange on an individual level), we seem to have created a society that wants everything to be female orientated and it worries me for my boys.

So we've created a society that "wants everything to be female oriented" and yet disproportionately rewards male adult behaviour - financially, politically and otherwise?

It doesn't add up. If the gender equality gap were lessening you might be able to argue that though adult men seem to have an advantage in the crucial areas of employment, financial rewards (pay, pensions, assets) and political representation, it's changing among the younger generations and is, possibly, arguably, going too far. But in fact the evidence strongly suggests that the opposite is still happening. Girly-oriented classrooms or behaviour expectations or whatever aren't stopping the boys from taking over in adulthood.

Of course there are women taking top roles and high salaries too. We have examples on mumsnet. But on average, it's still the men, far more than would be expected considering that for decades girls have been improving their performance at school and university.

In what way does society want everything to be female orientated?

It does add up, its about age and expression.

The jobs that pay well reward male behaviours in terms of aggression, target attainment etc. But these skills aren't valued in the classroom where they are less likely to be able to be channelled into productive behaviours.

Add in the gender tendencies to certain jobs- male plumbers / electricians etc which are fairly well paid versus terribly paid carers / nannies etc and there is a definite pattern forming that accounts for the imbalance in earnings whilst not contradicting bias at a young age.

Op- Maybe you should stop assuming blue means boys and pink girls.

YANBU - and it is getting worse. Driven by consumerism so that parents are forced to buy two sets of everything if they have a girl and a boy.

But it is up to parents to stop it.

I heard a Mum say to a little girl, put that book down that's for boys.... it was a Thomas the tank engine book (girl dressed head to foot in pink), now had she said 'put down that book as it is one of most dull books ever written to read aloud' I would have agreed...

It means girls are expected to behave as little angels and be trodden all over and boys are meant to hide their feelings as they trod all over the girls.

Morris I don't think its female orientated per se, just that the traits that are currently valued in our societal set up are those typically held by bys (see earlier disclaimer about generalisations as opposed to individuals!)

So its assumed that girls are mroe iely to sit still- and we like quiet sitters, and read earlier- again a plus.

Male behaviours: 'aggression and target attainment'??

Thinks of males of own aquaintance and guffaws

OK, swap aggression (very bad word I admit) for competitiveness

and I did disclaim the generic assumptions LOL

( my male friends are similar to your s I think, but I have to say the stereotypes seem to hold true in the small boys - many- of my acquaintance)