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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Measles-anyone have any experience of it?

228 replies

hellymelly · 05/11/2008 21:58

My daughters are not vaccinated and there is a measles outbreak here.We have agonised over vaccination and so far we have opted out but measles does frighten me,and reactions vary,my GP is naturally very pro vaccination,the homoeopath I spoke to feels differently,I have been to several lectures about vaccination and I still can't decide.DH is thinking maybe we should give the girls the single vaccine.Does anyone have any experience of measles?How bad can it get? I had it as a child,everyone did,but I don't really remember what it was like.

OP posts:
jimjamshaslefttheyurt · 05/12/2008 15:11

Read what I said. I said in most cases. Which is true. I know people with vaccine induced encephalitis that are not alright now. One cause isn't more worthy than another. Brain damage is pretty crap however you get it.

VirginBoffinMum · 05/12/2008 15:13

Yes, jimjam, but it's about statistical risk. The chances of encephalitis from a vaccine are surely a lot lower than the chances of encephalitis from measles. Life is not risk free, you just have to move towards the lowest risk option.

ELMOchristmascountdown · 05/12/2008 15:15

i cant lay my finger (computer finger) on it just now.

but was there not a big fuss recently that the doctor who researched into a link between autism and mmr had actually made up his findings to become more well known in the profession.

that he hadn't actually done any proper research on it and he had based his theory on result of looking at time lines of children with autism and linking that to them showing signs when they had recently had their mmr.

and that infact it could just be pure coincidence that they choose to give the mmr at a time when autism can choose to show signs/develop within a dc.

i was also led to believe this was another factor in them changing the age at which they give the mmr. to dispprove the link between autism and mmr.

dont flame me as i can find no info on the net to link this at the mo. been looking for past wee while i've been on her this afternoon.

but i came accross these findings when i was researching wether or not to give my son the mmr last year.

pagwatch · 05/12/2008 15:15

yes.
and for my DD the lowest risk option is not the MMR.

It depends on your child and your history. You are just assuming where you feel the highest risk is across the board whereas I am talking about specific children.

It is poor comfort to me that you consider my sons severe ASD to be some kind of bad statistical luck

jimjamshaslefttheyurt · 05/12/2008 15:16

Yes and YOUR lowest risk is totally different to MY LOWEST risk.

I have watched one son get seriously brain damaged, I know how it happened, I know that ds3 shares many of the predispositions that ds1 had. I therefore have a reasonably good idea of how to navigate our way through life in a way that limits his chances of being affected in the way ds1 was.

I don't give a monkeys what the population risk is. I'm interested in my children's individual risk.

dontwanttobejumpedon · 05/12/2008 15:17

the point is is that some children are more at risk from the vaccine than others.

jimjamshaslefttheyurt · 05/12/2008 15:17

ELMO your post is completely wrong. But there is another thread running today which will explain to you why if you're interested.

dontwanttobejumpedon · 05/12/2008 15:18

Elmo your summing up of Wakefield's research proves that the media have done their job extremely well.

ELMOchristmascountdown · 05/12/2008 15:18

link me pls. i will try and see if i can find that info i came accross last year also. i dont think i got it online though. sure it was a documentary i watched.

pagwatch · 05/12/2008 15:18

ELMO

my son did not coincidentaly show signs of autism at the same age as the MMR.
he was developing'normally'. he had the jab at 18 months and then he regressed very quickly and lost all skills.

The co-incidence notion is nonsense

jimjamshaslefttheyurt · 05/12/2008 15:21

Oh god not Brian Deer Dispatches.
the thread is here but you'l have to read the whole thing.

If you're really interested the GMC hearing diaries will give you all the information you need. Although they'll take about a day to read.

jimjamshaslefttheyurt · 05/12/2008 15:21

I know a child who lost speech at 4. The coincidence thing is just ridiculous.

pagwatch · 05/12/2008 15:22

dontwanttobejumpedon

"Elmo your summing up of Wakefield's research proves that the media have done their job extremely well."

it is pretty scary isn't it?

ELMOchristmascountdown · 05/12/2008 15:23

is there another thread on this please. i would like more info before i get sommited to debate. thats why never asked about this earlier in the thread.

i dont want to start an arguement.

i would like to know if it's possible that a child can may not show signs of autism until a later stage as it lies
"dormant(spelling)" if this is possible. perhaps a child is born with autism. but it never develops until the dc reaches a certain age.

of course no one with an autistic child would like to here that idea. as they would prefer there child was "given/caught" the condition. rather than the idea they were born with it.

dont tart an argument. i am trying to get info so i can make up my own mind.

if anyone has any info pls link me.

ELMOchristmascountdown · 05/12/2008 15:24

excuse the typing. wireless keyboard is playing up and missing letters. and my mispelling as speed doesn't help

jimjamshaslefttheyurt · 05/12/2008 15:24

I've given 2 links in my post above.

I know plenty of people who are happy to say their child was autistic birth. Being the parent of an autistic child doesn't make you some sort of shattered personality desperately seeking for someone to blame.

My son's regression (following a natural viral infection) is agreed by his peadiatrician.

pagwatch · 05/12/2008 15:25

I am a calm and patient woman but I would really quite like to punch Brain Deer .
And Michael Fitzpatrick too.

They spout their poison and I spend my whole life being branded a deluisional liar and shouted at by people who read one thing once and ......

jimjamshaslefttheyurt · 05/12/2008 15:26

Do you know Fitzpatrick's nickname? Suits him.

Brian Deer has been rather soundly denounced as a liar (even from witnesses for the prosecution) in the GMC hearings. Pity that never makes the press.

ELMOchristmascountdown · 05/12/2008 15:27

i'm not saying all dc are born with it.not saying it cant be brought on by something else.

i haven't done enough research to have an opinion.

thanks ladies

pagwatch · 05/12/2008 15:27

ELMO

why on earth do you seriously believe that I would prefer my son to have caught something rather than be born with something?

That is the most bizarre thing I have ever heard.

And I know hundreds of mums of children with ASD and they are all really open and honest about whether they think their childs issues are genetic or otherwise. Why wouldn't they be?

jimjamshaslefttheyurt · 05/12/2008 15:29

pagwatch the following is from (cry shame website) Horton's evidence to the GMC hearing. Horton being no fan of Wakefields of course. Really interesting what he says about Deer:

The point at which my ignorant dislike of Horton unravelled was when he described, how, on addressing Deer?s complaints against Wakefield, presented at the Lancet, he immediate said, ?this has to be investigated?, and began to plan evidence gathering trips to the Royal Free to question Wakefield and his colleagues. According to Horton, Deer collapsed in the face of proper investigation and pleaded with him not to pursue this approach. Not long after this, Horton told the hearing, ?I fell out with Mr Deer?.

According to Horton, his enquiry into Deer?s allegations left him sure that at least one of the most serious was completely fictitious. From that point onwards, in real life and in the hearing, Horton gave impeccable evidence for the defence. In fact he rose to a level of praise for Dr Wakefield the like of which I have only previously heard from parents.

When Horton moved to talking about the paper published in the Lancet, it became clear that he had the highest regard for the method which the ?case series? used and the way in which it was presented. If the prosecution was expecting him to say that the paper was full of poor science, they must have been surprised when he said the absolute opposite.

Horton said that the Lancet paper was an excellent example of a ?case series?. That this was a standard and entirely reputable way of reporting on a possible new syndrome. He likened it to how the first cases of HIV/AIDS were reported in the early 80s and how the new variant CJD issue broke more recently. He said unequivocally that the science reported in the 1998 Lancet paper ?still stands? and that he 'wished, wished, wished' that the clock could be turned back and the paper be considered in the light it was first presented, without everything that followed.

Defence council spent a considerable time cross examining Horton about the declaration of ?conflict of interest? issue. Over the years this has become one of the most important issues associated with the Lancet paper. At the end of a long session, the worst that Horton could adduce was that Dr Wakefield was genuinely surprised that there was the need for him to reveal funding from the Legal Aid Board, which anyway hadn?t been used in this case-series, or at all at that point.

Horton was happy to say that Dr Wakefield had been honest throughout his dealings with the Lancet and that he had not declared any conflict of interest because he genuinely believed (and believes still) that there was no conflict to be declared. While Horton personally disagreed with Dr Wakefield?s interpretation of this, as did Professor Simon Murch and Professor Walker-Smith, he acknowledged clearly that it could be seen as a matter of opinion and not a reflection on Dr Wakefield?s honesty.

pagwatch · 05/12/2008 15:30

no I don't know it
But I hope it is bad.
Does it have twat in it?

jimjamshaslefttheyurt · 05/12/2008 15:30

Horton btw was a prosecution witness

ELMOchristmascountdown · 05/12/2008 15:31

pagwatch -

I AM NOT SAYING YOU.

but some mothers have a problem with the idea of their dc being born with ANY illness. as they believe they will get the blame for doing something wrong in pg, or bad genetics.

AGAIN. IM NOT SAYING YOU. not starting an arguement. wasn't going to reply.

but thought perhaps you were genuinly interested in why i said that.

jimjamshaslefttheyurt · 05/12/2008 15:31

Replace Fitzpat - then replace the ending with something beginning with sh.