to not let dd take part in tomorrows lesson about smoking?

[frankbestfriend]

So, dd came out of school today completely distraught after having a lady come in to talk to the class about smoking.

Dh is a smoker who is extremely considerate of others, he smokes in the garden, and never when we are out and about with dd, even if we are outdoors.

Although I appreciate the need to educate the children about the risks of smoking and encourage them to never start, I feel todays lesson has gone beyond that.

The children were asked to put up their hands if their parents smoke, and then shown pictures of organs cut from the bodies of smokers after their deaths. They were told that this is what will happen to their parents. They were also given homework, to go home and tell their parents about the diseased organs, and point out the various poisons they are inhaling when they smoke.

Dd is traumatised.
I think making them identify themselves as children of smokers in front of the class(dd says people were looking at her and saying eeurgh!) is going too far. Imagine if they had shown the heart of someone with obesity related heart disease and asked them to put their hand up if they had a fat parent

It seems a little militant, and also as if the children are being made to take responsibility for an adults choice.

She is only 7 and has been beside herself with worry tonight. Tomorrow she has to go into the lesson and report back on her dad's response, and I really don't want her to have to go through this again.

So, AIBU? I know I am probably about to be bashed to death by the anti smoking brigade.

God, i think that's appalling. I am all for education about smoking. Children do need to learn and understand about the dangers, but the lesson you just described is going way to far. Dp is emphaticaly anti smoking, i am a smoker who doesn't smoke (hoping that makes sense) We have both spoken to dd about smoking already and she is only 4. Her grandma smokes and dd has curiously asked what grandma does outside and why she isn't allowed outside with her while she does it. We have explained a little about it, about the fact it is dangerous and not pleasant, but there is no way we would consider showing her the effects OR telling her grandma will die because of it because it would terrify her.
I also hate the emotianal blackmail of the homework.
Have a word with the school and tell them you are very unhappy with the way it's been carried out. YANBU.

am not against the shock tactics of telling it as it is but it is so wrong to single out kids of smokers.
what educational purpose can that possibly achieve?

YANBU.

My mother smokes. DD knows this, and the idea of her, at 7, being scared about the impact of granny smoking on granny's health is abhorrent to me.

The analogy about obesity and health is a good one. I would be surprised if they were to go into school and ask all obese children or all children of obese parents to put their hands up before being humiliated and singled out Gillian McKeith style. So why is it OK to do the same to children of smokers.

By all means educate of the risks. But allow children to make their own associations if they have family members who smoke, rather than explicitly stating that parents who smoke WILL die as a direct result of smoking. Because that's not true anyway. Speaking as one who had 4 grandparents, all of whom smoked and none of whom had cancer and all of whom lived 80.

I really should read the thread properly shouldn't I? I was under the impression that the DD was 11, don't know why.
Didn't realise she was only 7. In that case, I take it all back. It is too much for one so young.
Sorry to have upset, was unintional.

I am fervently anti-smoking but think YANBU. They should not have made it a personal issue about parents. Surely any general lesson will get the kids thinking about their parents anyway but they do not need to be humiliated in front of the whole class.

I actually think kids handle graphic images better than adults and were probably fascinated by them.

Unintentional.
See? Cuckoo!

I agree pooka

My grandma smoked her whole life and she died at 87 of a nautral cause the only thing that was wrong with her was she was a bit nuts

Hmm. On one hand I think they went a bit over the top, but you say now the teacher said "I'm a bit nosy, so can you put your hand up if you live with someone who smokes"

Did she then go on to talk about secondhand smoke and passive smoking? This could have been where the question came from.
Scare stories aren't good at this age, but as someone said earlier it's not the lesson that scared her it's your DH smoking.

Is she year 2 or 3?

If it were alcohol they had been discussing and showed the liver and kidneys of an alcoholic would anyone have reacted this way? No, because you can explain to your children that a small amount of alcohol is safe, however even a small amount of cigarette smoke isn't.

As far as my DD is concerned smoking kills. My Dad died of lung cancer so she knows all too well how it can happen. She probably tells people at school that smoking killed her Granda, so sooner or later your DD will get this message.

So, IMO, YANBU to think it was badly handled, people should have not been picked out, but YABU to expect people to hide the fact that smoking kills.

OP - much sympathy for your dd and you over this. Agree with your comment re obesity.

Education should not be personalised like this. You should complain in writing to the Head and if that does not resolve it (ask for apology and assurance it will not happen again) you should write to the Chair of the Governors.

Schools have to keep a record of all complaints.

Sorry if some one's already said this - haven't read whole thread. I have never smoked and do not allow it in my house.

YANBU, it is far too young to be talking to them like this. I agree that at some point they should be taught that it harms you. But it sounds a bit graphic and to tell little children that their parents will die because they smoke is too much. It is like saying "now how many of your mums and dads drive a car, cause one day they might get killed in a car crash. Here are some pictures to demonstrate what could happen to them"

It is disgusting to put such worry on such little shoulders.

yanbu i think its wrong for yor dd to be singled out or any child tbh thats wrong
but i totaly agree kids should be told the dangers of smoking in a child freindly way i have 5 kids with my 3 eldests from my hubby who sadly died of cancer (not smoking related may i add) but sitting with him and reading every book on the dangers of smoking etc yes i think they should learn early my 8 and 3 year old already know smoking is bad and can make people really poorly and they won,t be able to breath properly
all my kids think its disgusting !! so far so good !!

I agree with others that it was badly handled and I am sory that your DD has been upset. However, I remember my mother smoking (usually about 20 a day) and me being very aware of the dangers - smoking = cancer = death, and always hating it. When I was about 10 (maybe a bit younger) I remember shouting at her that she should stop or she would get cancer and die. Some time later (still smoking) she did.

What I am trying to say is that although it was a shock for your DD, she will get the message anyway, hopefully she will hate smoking and never start. I hope that your DH gives up.

"Hands up everyone whose mum or dad had sex with another person (before or during marriage)!"

"ok susan, Do you know that your dad could die horribly from a nasty sexually transmitted disease after infecting your mum and your unborn baby sister?"

"this is how they'd look after their bodies started to rot away"

"now get out the fingerpaints and copy the pictures into your books"

That would help with the casual sex wouldn't it.

To tell them it is harmful is one thing to tell them their parents are going to die horrible deaths if they smoke is another. I think they should be encouraging kids to not smoke, not scaring the shit out of them.

Totally out of order, I would have been furious.

Frankbestfriend can you tell us what happened today, did you get it all sorted?

UPDATE

I went in to school this morning and made a complaint to the head. She was a bit sceptical about dds story, and insinuated that dd was exaggerating. She said the organisation which provided the teaching was thoroughly reputable and followed government guidelines on such matters.

After I insisted that dd was asked to volunteer personal information and was also encouraged to come home and dissuade dh from smoking for her homework, the head promised to talk to the organisation about their methods(thanks for the link, edam, that was the group in question)

Disatisfied with this, I had an informal chat with the HLTA who was present during the lesson, and she confirmed dds version of events and also said she had felt rather uncomfortable about some of the methods used. They had not been talking about the dangers of passive smoking, the woman taking the session was simply being a nosy cow. The HLTA also said that part of the suggested homework was to ask their parents if they would be happy to drink rat poison or eat a candle, as these were some of the chemical ingredients of cigarettes

I allowed my daughter to take part in this mornings session, which I observed. It was taken by a different woman, and involved them role playing a situation in which they were offered cigarettes and how they could stand strong in the face of peer pressure. The session was good and wholly appropriate for their age group and I support these sorts of teaching methods.

I have now made a written complaint to the board of governers outining my concerns.

The head said that in her personal opinion, this is the shape of things to come. The government are requiring more and more that primary schools become the state 'nanny', doing the work of the government with regard to public health and social education.

Thanks everyone for taking the time to reply, your words have all been so helpful for me to formulate a concise argument for my concerns.

i would complain about the head, too.

i don't know whom you complain about heads to, but i'd find out.

terrorising children is never on, especially at that age.

i remember when i was her age i got in trouble from drawing cartoons for another little boy during spanish class.

she spent lots of lessons filling our heads with ghost stories and telling us if we told our parents the ghosties would come get us.

it only came to light when some of the children started having serious sleep problems and nightmares and finally 'fessed up to their folks.

children at this age can take things very literally and often not understand concepts like probability or likelihoods.

I have included, in my letter of complaint, my disatisifaction with the way the head dealt with the situation.

I also questioned how it was possible that an organisation could come into school and the head and other staff have little idea about the content of their sessions.

No one at the school seems to want to take responsibility for what went on, as the teaching came from an outside organisation.They could have been the farking Klu Klux Klan coming in to do a session, and none of the teaching staff would have been any the wiser, apparently

'They could have been the farking Klu Klux Klan coming in to do a session, and none of the teaching staff would have been any the wiser, apparently'

And in an era where it's becoming increasingly common to groom young people - for all kinds of things, not just the first thing you'd think of - that's scary.

Th KKK is probably quite a good analogy for that terrifying scare-mongering and shaming that went on in your dd's class. Complain to your local head of education and MP while you're at it. Never mind the subject matter - it was the methods. I know, I know -you only have to read MN for a minute to realise that smoking and smokers are the new shadow projection in this society, representing dark, evil forces to be stamped out.

as kids we were the driving (nagging) force which made my dad give up smoking

if this lesson (although I hate to think of her being picked on) helps her to help him give up by showing her the risks (in an age-appropriate way, I'd hope) then I think it's worth it

even if it's scary, it's certainly better than losing her dad at an early age to smoking

sorry, I'm being so dozy, had missed update

many of us would like smoking to be stamped out, few I think would like to stamp on smokers (unless it actually helped them give up). The people I know who are the most anti-smoking are those who have people they love who smoke. I don't want to hurt my husband, I just want him to stop hurting himself! And yes running the risk of hurting my children very much indeed, as they love their Daddy very much.

Re the headmaster's response, I would suspect that this is an issue of an individual stepping over the mark rather than an inappropriate organisational programme per se, so to that extent he was probably right, and may genuinely not have believed that the scenario you were describing took place. However he did agree to follow it up. I guess it might be his manner (dismissive I am guessing) that upset you. I think that the HLTA (I am assuming this is a teaching assistant?) should really have raised concerns about the content with the school leadership if she thought it inappropriate rather than waiting for you to talk to her.

bundle, I understand your point, but it is not my daughters responsibility to help dh give up smoking, nor should she feel responsible if he does not give up.