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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to not let dd take part in tomorrows lesson about smoking?

114 replies

frankbestfriend · 01/10/2008 20:35

So, dd came out of school today completely distraught after having a lady come in to talk to the class about smoking.

Dh is a smoker who is extremely considerate of others, he smokes in the garden, and never when we are out and about with dd, even if we are outdoors.

Although I appreciate the need to educate the children about the risks of smoking and encourage them to never start, I feel todays lesson has gone beyond that.

The children were asked to put up their hands if their parents smoke, and then shown pictures of organs cut from the bodies of smokers after their deaths. They were told that this is what will happen to their parents. They were also given homework, to go home and tell their parents about the diseased organs, and point out the various poisons they are inhaling when they smoke.

Dd is traumatised.
I think making them identify themselves as children of smokers in front of the class(dd says people were looking at her and saying eeurgh!) is going too far. Imagine if they had shown the heart of someone with obesity related heart disease and asked them to put their hand up if they had a fat parent

It seems a little militant, and also as if the children are being made to take responsibility for an adults choice.

She is only 7 and has been beside herself with worry tonight. Tomorrow she has to go into the lesson and report back on her dad's response, and I really don't want her to have to go through this again.

So, AIBU? I know I am probably about to be bashed to death by the anti smoking brigade.

OP posts:
pointydog · 01/10/2008 23:10

I agree that smoking has to be handled sensitively with primary children, as many of them will know someone close who smokes. SHowing real pictures was not a good idea.

Perfectly reasonable for you to ask that your dd is not present at the next lesson. I also think teh teacher should be there so s/he can assess how appropriate the lessons are for future years.

phoebebouffet · 01/10/2008 23:11

Wrong on so many levels!
And I work for a health education charity - a professional one - these sound like amateurs. I don't really know where to start cos I haven't got my DFES guidance to hand but I'm quite sure they state that programmes should be age appropriate - I wouldn't consider pictures of diseased organs to be age appropriate! External contributors should be part of an ongoing programme of PSHE the teacher should integrate that lesson into the work they are already doing in class - presumably the teacher was present (if not that breaks every rule in the book)and noted your daughters reaction and therefore should follow it up. The overall responsibility for the lesson remains with the teacher. When dealing with sensitive issues in PSHE personal disclosures should not be encouraged, we would never ask children if their parents smoke, and would never judge any child who said it anyway. Have you been invited into school to meet with this organisation? Any health ed programme worth it's socks should involve parents - when I speak to parents I explain that we are not judging them, just talking to the children about the facts, challenging misconceptions,and that's what we do with Y5&Y6 children, we don't go into a lot of detail with Y3 children. At age 7 it's only a very brief introduction during a one hour lesson, we spend less than 5 mins on smoking.

onceinalifetime · 01/10/2008 23:13

I don't agree with the way it's being handled and I think you should complain as it's the sort of thing that could terrorise a 7yo for a long time.

However, I also don't believe that "Dh is a smoker who is extremely considerate of others" is a fair statement either. Having seen my stepfather die an absolutely horrific death earlier this year, suffer dreadfully and cause utter heartbreak for those around him, smoking is not a considerate action in any sense. Sorry to say that.

solidgoldbrass · 01/10/2008 23:18

This is appalling: I would complain and keep my child out of school for the afternoon.

WIth an older child I would have instructed him/her to say to the fuckwitted visitor, 'You know, you are going to die as well whether you smoke or not.'

ivykaty44 · 01/10/2008 23:19

Dh is a smoker who is extremely considerate of others

harsh but there is no such thing, he is addicted to nicotine and has not considered the effect on you and your dc - what if...

Lesson in school out of order, nicotine is more addictive than heroin, would they make a child stand at the front of the class if there parent was a heroin addict in the same way as they got the children to put up there hands for parents that smoke (legally I may add and tax paid) Would they ask the question, put your hand up children if your parents binge drink Or put your hands up if your parent is fat?

UniversallyChallenged · 01/10/2008 23:22

frank - it does seem a little ott for a 7 year old and she has every right to decide she doesnt want to go into class

BUT - on the other side of the coin if it makes her dad think again about smoking, believe you me it will be worth it. Far better her see a film like this that she can distance herself from hopefully than seeing her dad cut from ear to chest because he has throat cancer and then undergoing radical, hateful, radiotherapy which leaves him without tastebuds, no energy, scarred mentally and physically and on somedays wishing he could end it and when my dds visited him one of then could just about get through the hospital door before she saw him and fled, distraught with what he looked like

DH has been through all the above and what your lovely sensitive dd has seen in school will be nothing if he ends up like that.

Oh, and dh doesnt smoke but grew up in a passive smoking home. Linked? We will never know

Original poster
frankbestfriend · 01/10/2008 23:51

dd is not growing up in a passive smoking home,UniversallyChallenged.

I'm so sorry to hear your story. This does not change the fact that myself or dd cannot be resposible for dhs actions.

OP posts:
moondog · 01/10/2008 23:53

But Frank, would you rather your dd did not know the truth about your dh's actions. What they are telling her is fact (and I speak as one who has a v occasional fag)

UniversallyChallenged · 02/10/2008 00:00

I in no way intended to imply that you or your dd are responsible for your dhs actions.That would be a ludicrous thing for me to suggest. How could a 7 year old (or another adult}be blamed for someone chosing to smoke??

What I was trying in my usual hamfisted way to say is that if your dd getting upset makes your dh think about his smoking - he may see it as emotional blackmail - and he is coerced/shamed/blackmailed into giving up then surely that is a better outcome.

MollyCherry · 02/10/2008 00:02

I would be furious if this happened to my DD (I've never smoked, my mum only gave up 2 yrs ago and hubby still has the odd one or two at work or when out with the lads). I think you are well within your rights to keep your LO out of school during the relevant session and complain (more to the organisation themselves but obviously the school needs to be aware of the situation too).

Good luck and I hope your DD gets over theis horrible experience soon.

ivykaty44 · 02/10/2008 00:03

What are you going to do when they start putting the nasty photographs on the fag packets? The photographs are really horrid and although you may think you will be able to hide them, in reality your dd is going to end up seeing the pictures and knowing what they mean - dc arn't stupid?

I know you can't control what your dh does, but just a though for you cos the piccy go on from today

FairLadyRantALot · 02/10/2008 00:06

hmm, they are obviously trying through Kids to get at the smokers,,however, they are not ling, so maybe whichever partner is on teh line should go for the best way of action...
simplle really

pinkyp · 02/10/2008 00:09

i think you should write a letter to school, i think its disgraceful to do such a thing. Yeh warn them about smoking etc but to make them stand up and put there hands up and make then feel awful is not acceptable at all in my eyes. She is 7 for goodness sake! Maybe this approach would be more suitable for kids aroun 14-16 age range when there is a good chance they might of tried an odd cig etc.

blueskythinker · 02/10/2008 00:12

But getting children to disclose personal information in the classroom is a clear breach of Article 8 of the ECHR - Right to privacy. I would also be raising that with the Head

expatinscotland · 02/10/2008 00:24

not on. i would complain in writing to the head and to the organisation.

it is completely inappropriate for her age and yes, they'd never dream of showing the heart of someone with obesity-related disease or asked if anyone had fat parents or quizzed them about how they were fed in the home and how this could cause them to die.

because not all obese people die of obesity-related disease the same way not all smokers die from their addiction.

i'd also visit the head and explain why my child would not be attending the lesson and even complain to the council.

there is no good in emotionally terrorising children over an adults actions.

at all. ever. for whatever reason.

what next, showing them videos of suicide bombings in order to indoctrinate them about terrorism?

disgusting.

solidgoldbrass · 02/10/2008 00:39

Here's another idea for that idiot visitor - ask the kids to put their hands up if their parents own a car. Then tell them that they are contributing to pollution, obesity and the oil crisis and their homework is to go and smash up the family car.

MamaMimi · 02/10/2008 00:58

I've only really read the OP and, BLIMEY, was I shocked when I read that your dd is only 7. Had to do a double take to check I had read the age correctly as I thought you must have been describing something that had happened at senior school.

Even then the tactics used would be too insensitive, but 7, unbelievable. No wonder your dd is so upset, poor child, what a responsibility to put on such young shoulders.

scaryteacher · 02/10/2008 08:04

The teacher should have been in the lesson, and should also have previewed with this organisation what they were going to do, and pointed out what would be unacceptable for a class of 7 y.o.

As to your dh giving up smoking, that's his call. He's an adult and can choose what he does, knowing presumably all the arguments and possible consequences.

I can't see that HMG really want people to quit smoking as they raise so much in revenue from it.

I would complain as others have said via the Head,; make an appointment and go in, with everything written don that you want to say, and follow it up in writing, with maybe a copy to the Chairman of Governors. I would also ciopy this to the organisation along with a letter of complaint. Maybe copy it to the DFeS as well?

mm22bys · 02/10/2008 11:23

It's obviously emotional blackmail, tell the child all the horrible things that will happen to those who smoke (ie your daddy), get them upset, then get the child to tell the parents they know what's going to happen to them

Parent duelly gets upset by child being upset, and quits.

It may very well work in some cases...

Doesn't make it right though.

MrsMattie · 02/10/2008 11:26

I don't think it's an appropriate way to tackle this issue with 7 yr olds, no. I think you'd be well within your rights to raise this with the school.

However, your child won't always be 7 yrs old and pretty soon he will have to face the fact that the information he has received is actually pretty accurate.

CherryChapstick · 02/10/2008 11:32

Sorry, but I think YABU.
I am an ex smoker of 14 months due to pressure from my children. I am glad I gave up as I want to see them get old.
A smoker is a smoker, be it a 'considerate' one or not. As a smoker, your DH is in danger. Your DD needs to know the dangers, so that she can make the decision not to start herself and also to educate her as to what might happen to her loved one.

2beornot2be · 02/10/2008 11:35

YANBU They should not be teaching children that at such a young age I hope your DD is ok and I hope you take her out of the next lesson.

fanjolina · 02/10/2008 11:37

YANBU

2beornot2be · 02/10/2008 11:43

cherrychapstick a 7yr old does not need to think that her Daddy is going to die and his vital organs are getting destroyed maybe when she is older it should be explained why smoking is dangerous but not now.

There is ways on teaching young children and that is not the way OP poor DD was traumatised

2beornot2be · 02/10/2008 11:49

Also OP I think your DH is very considerate not to smoke around your DD especially since every week on mumsnet people are complaining about parents smoking around there children.