Please help me with this letter to DH and tell me if any of these points are unreasonable

[totallypeedoff]

Ok, to set the scene - DS is 8 weeks old, been mixed feeding him on Dr's advice (don't ask - big mistake) for 6 weeks.

DH has been gradually getting on my wick with the way we share caring for DS. I'm sure this is a bit of an old chestnut but this weekend he really upset me and I'm still pissed off so thought I should tell him really. I can't face an argument though, I really can't. So I'm going to put it in a letter. Please can you tell me if any of these points are unreasonable as I just want to get to the stage where things are fair.

Dear DH,

I'm afraid I'm still a little bit upset with you after Friday night. I know we hadn't made an arrangement long in advance that you would get up with DS the first time he woke that night. I understand now that you were confused about the arrangement we made but instead of arguing with me about it while the baby lay crying I don't think it would have taken much for you to recognise that I could have done with the break and just gone and fed him.

I know you work full time but I try my very hardest not to disturb you when he wakes in the night, and I don't ask you to do anything for him in the night. For the first time in 8 weeks I thought I had a chance to sleep through while you fed him but you refused and started an argument.

I understand that you are finding new fatherhood hard. I find it hard being a parent as well but I have to be honest with you - the hardest parts for me have been pregnancy, childbirth, getting up in the night and breastfeeding. I accept that you've tried to support me through these things, and that watching the birth was understandably distressing.

However, you don't seem to acknowledge that
these are things that I have to deal with alongside the general day to day care of our child. I amsick of arguing the toss with you over who's turn it is to change a nappy.

I'm fed up of you claiming that it's not your turn to give him a bottle as you gave him one 6 hours ago despite the fact that I've been breastfeeding him for 3 hours in the interrim.

You seem to be determined to split the load down the middle without acknowledging the many hours a day I spend feeding him and the broken nights that I spend with him.

This probably doesn't sound like much to me you but it is making me feel as though I am increasingly on my own.

I do appreciate the other things you do, especially the cooking. But please could you try to be more supportive and involved.

Sorry, v long...

Now that you've written it down, I would take a deep breath and try very hard to have a mature adult conversation with your DH. Don't give him a letter. It is all quite normal baby stuff, it is really hard and you both need to find a way through it together.

Thinking of you.

(My DH is also very good at arguing with me about what rational choice I should make, when really I just want a big hug and a bit of help. It's not his fault - it's his personality. But we are gradually learning to communicate better!)

I'm sorry you are having such a tough time - it will get easier, I promise. I just wanted to give you some words of wisdom though, just so you don't get side tracked if your DH starts to wriggle under your very reasonable requests.

I work FT and my DH is a SAHD. I'm telling you now, it is at least 50% easier to be at work, knackered from looking after a little baby than it is to be the person at home looking after a little baby when you are knackered. I personally think it's outrageous that men seem to think that because they are working, they are somehow excused from getting up in the night and settling a baby - especially if the baby is mix or bottle feeding. Whilst I was still BFing, I would feed DS in our bed, with a low light on as it was more comfortable. DH snoozed through it, and when I'd finished feeding (20 exhausted minutes later) I would nudge DH and he would take DS back to his cot, burp him and settle him down. This was teamwork - it's what I would expect out of a marriage. Sometime women are too much of a martyr when it comes to childcare.

I know a LOVELY bloke who I used to work with - his DD is a teenager now, but he told me he never got up once in the night to her, because he DW has insisted she ought to be the one to do it because he was working full time - needless to say, he wasn't going to argue! And he is a really decent bloke - not some neanderthal!

So you are right to set some ground rules, and I understand why you want to get this down in a letter. Maybe you could use the letter to read off. Maybe just ask him to sit and listen whilst you read it to him - explain you've written it because you want and adult discussion, and not an argument. once you've read, let him respond. It's a bit therapy speak, but a good thing to do is to say "when you do this, or didn't do this, it makes me feel like X". Then he can respond. Rather than just saying "you're a selfish old bastard" which he can only respond to defensively. Your letter sounds measured and mature - try and relay it's contents verbally.

Best of luck. It's early days, and sooner or later he will figure it out. If you are mix feeding, why don't you suggest he looks after your baby on his own for a day - it's amazing how many new fathers don't and never do this - no wonder they think SAHM's sit around filing their nails and making paper doilies all day. They figure, how hard can it be? Most women, before kids, just can't imagine how a tiny babe can keep them running around like a loon for all but a few minutes of everyday.

Please don't send the letter. It is clear that you are both tired and feeling a bit overwhelmed. It is amazing how we can get so uptight about the slightest little things when we are so knackered. Not that your issue is a little thing. I think that when you hear parents talk about how knackering it is etc, you kind of don't appreciate it until you actually have to do the whole sleep deprivation thing. My DP was like, wooa, wtf is going on here. My DD was a very bad sleeper and we were lucky if we got three hours a night full stop. I was BF at first and then mixed feeding. When we decided to give a bottle of a night (when we were down to one feed) we just kind of did it together, i comforted DD, whilst DP warmed the bottle then i fed her while he went back to sleep - or at least tried It wasn't the most logical thing to do i guess but it felt fair.

I would let it go to be honest, not because you it is not important, it is. Its was Friday that this happened so as far as he will be concerned that is the dim and distant past. There could be more positive ways of suggesting he helps out. Yes, he has to go to work but you have a baby to care for during the day - i honestly think if one more person said to me "sleep when baby sleeps" i would have shot them. I would appeal to his better nature, just say, oh god, im soooo tired, do you think that tonight you could....

I now do the majority, no really, i do all of the housework now, including cooking. I am a SAHM and im around to do it. My DP just lets me do it and sometimes feels guilty about this and says that it is very easy just to let someone get on and do things when they do such a good job (i do see the irony in this dont worry) but i know exactly what he means. There would be times when he would cook and i would leave it all to him, everything - it just becomes a routine and then for some reason something changes. I can imagine that when i go back to work i will get "lazy" about cooking again and leave it all to him.

Be careful about the letting him look after the baby for a day, he will do it, he will do it really well, nothing else will get done of course but he will be smugly saying, "ah, i dont know what the big deal is - its easy", it is, for a day, but day in day out, with everything else that needs doing in between....he needs to have her for a week .

From a much more long term perspective I think the earlier a dad becomes involved in the equal care of their dcs the better. I very mistakenly thought that as a SAHM it was my "job" to look after our dcs and that I shouldn't expect my dh to help because he'd been at work all day. This was made more so because ds1 has sn and the guilt I felt meant I felt he had to have all my attention and that no one else including my dh would look after him properly.
I can honestly say that my dh never changed a dirty nappy and only an occasional wet one when he absolutely had to.
But since the baby years my dh has continued to leave me to do all the childcare. I chose schools for our dcs, I go to parents evenings,(DH would struggle to tell you the names of our dc's schools/colleges never mind which year they are in or their teacher's names) I do all out of school activities, I've done all the form filling for ds1's dla etc. I also do all his hospital appointments. Dh never becomes involved in matters of discipline other than to critisise decisions I make. Our 2 ds are now teenagers with all the problems teenagers bring. I am finding these years extremely difficult particularly with ds2 who is very bright but on a mission to get thrown out of sixth form at the moment.
Dh has an awful relationship with his children and I feel alot of this is as a result of his lack of involvement with them as younger children. He doesn't have some very high powered job which involves him working long hours. He is home by 4.30 everyday and has Friday afternoons and weekends free too. He doesn't do housework/decorating/gardening/shopping etc either.
This is turning into a rant about my dh which wasn't my intention. And while I know it's not all my fault I must accept some of the blame for allowing this situation to develope to a point where I feel I have 4 dcs not 3 and a dh. The point someone made about your lo's care not being a subject of an argument but something you should both want to do is advice I wish I'd had 19 years ago.

totally agree with Cappucino and Policyw's posts on this thread.

I would send the letter rather than not as I think it makes a very strong point that needs making but maybe you could word some bits in a positive way as well as negative - yes tell him that it's outrageous and crap to argue the toss over who's turn it is, then tell him what you DO want him to do; eg to remember you have been doing this all day and simply want him to take his turn as part of being the good dad that you know he is etc etc etc, the baby needs hands on care and time with him...

but yes arguing the toss over not changing the nappy/feeding is just embarrassingly crap of him.

Yes, Lucyellensmum makes a good point about the one day thing - I retract that advice! The point is, they don't understand what effect the relentless demand of a small (or older!) child can have psychologically - that's why I say working is easier. You can always wait 5 mins before responding to a demand or task. Make a cup of tea - go to the loo or whatever just for a moment to gather yourself. When you're a SAHP, you don't have that luxury. It's endless! And the less you do it, the more difficult it is to suddenly start. I always find weekends a bit of a shock to the system. My DC's are 1 and 3 - I really have to gird my loins to set up yet another picnic with DD or figure out a way to calm down DS without resorting to his dummy. DH has it all down pat - so of course it's often easier just to look to him to deal with the DC's when things are a bit frazzled.

totally agree with you as well kiddiz. Stuff like changing nappies, feeding seems just like the day to day slog but it bonds the dad and it is very very important in the long term. So is having sole care of the baby regularly; dads need time on their own with the baby.

dont send it - a discussion about who does what and when is reasonable.

i think that its very easy to get into a "i am a bigger martyr than you" mindset.

He works full time, and that will invariably have its own pressures. From the op we only get a snapshot - but he does most of the cooking?

However you are understandably pissed off. you work full time too after all!

i think as has been suggested - a rota. or divvy of tasks.

you do a full day
he does a full day

the sharing begins when dh gets home.

i think that if you breast feed - he should bottle feed.

think about the time he gets up for work - could he prepare stuff for you for that day - could he do an early morning feed giving you a lie in?

good luck

Thanks everyone, the stupid thing is, I think I'm coping fine. I feel great, we have a little routine, get out every afternoon either with friends or round the shops.

He just annoyed me to be honest, he says things like "oh it's so hard being a new parent" and I think. Well, yes, establishing breastfeeding is hard, broken nights are hard but the rest of it has been fairly straightforward so why is it such a struggle for him given that he's not had to do either of those things.

With regards to the mixed feeding she has one bottle at noon and one before bed, so he can't help with night feeds (except for the one we arranged for him to do on Friday).

Another issue that has annoyed me is that he carried on drinking as much as he liked while I was teetotal in preganancy, swearing he would cut down once the baby arrived, which he now hasn't. It makes it harder on my because DS goes down in his moses basket at the beginning of the night but co-sleeps for feeds once he wakes up. Obviously he can't sleep in the middle of the bed if DH has been drinking so it means I can only feed from one breast in the night, which probably hasn't helped my supply, or else I have to sit bolt upright to feed (which I don't want to do as have fallen asleep a few times doing this).

Agree a letter is probabyl not the best way to address this, will try speaking to him when he's in a more receptive mood.

One more thing that he did last week that pissed me off - I asked him to take the baby in the evening when he went upstairs to go on the computer and he replied "but you went out today". I had gone out for lunch with my NCT group with the baby!! Hardly a break!!!

just checked this post out, im new to all this, but you girls r so supportive and funny! my hubby has been great, but like you all say, they sometimes try to make out they're hard done to because they work etc. i agree that flattery is best option, 'oh your so good at doing the night feed, i find it really hard to keep him settled...and so on'
most of all, have some time alone and tell him you love him(if you do!?) i recently spoke to my fella about this and he said he felt unloved and useless, and felt he couldnt do anything right..

Those first few weeks are so hard

I remember screaming at DH (who had already had a son) - "you never told me I would be doing everything!"

We have these sort of childcare/housework conversions on the phone or out on a walk in the house is a disaster as we end up sniping at each other.

I think you are right to expect him to do 50 % when he is not at work, as he is 50% his child and you have no time off.

As for the drinking, is he drinking too much, is that a problem as well or not?

otherwise get him to sleep somewhere else on the nights that he wants to drink, it is not fair on you and potentially could screw up your bf (or like me end up with one big one small boob!)

It is hard at first for both of you, and you have had much more time with the baby to get use to him

try and organise a time at the weekend where he looks after the baby completely on his own, try and avoid organising it all for him. gives you a break and him a chance to gain confidence.

My DH looks after my two for a day a week, has always done since DS1 was eight months and I returned to work he now appreciates how hard it can be., and how much fun!

Good luck all v v normal!

also my sister gave me some good advice when I had my first -

don't treat nappy changing as a chore, instead view it as time to play with your baby, (blow raspberries on their tummy's etc) then both you and the baby enjoy it more

However you do it, he wants sorting. Refuse to take the baby with him upstairs because you went out in the afternoon WITH the baby?

My jaw is on the floor

He needs to realise this is HIS CHILD.

I know the early days are a chore and a grind and yes you need to approach it positively with him, but he needs to shape up big time.

Okay, that's it, I'm coming over to sort him out - where do you live?

Just kidding, mostly, but how selfish can they be? Mine hasn't given up smoking yet despite swearing he would do so and has been smoking in the attic - where we are storing the baby clothes and the moses basket - so now one of my maternity leave jobs is rewashing everything.

Your last comment is worrying as well - does he really not want to spend any time with your baby? It should be something he wants to do, not just a household chore! Gah!

By the way, please excuse the hormonal rage, but this is pressing all my buttons too. And it is bloody hard to remain calm and collected and have a reasonable discussion about this sort of thing when you are tired and feeling let down by your DH.

How was your pregnancy, by the way? Did you have an okay time that didn't impact much on your DH's lifestyle? Just interested.

Thanks, I am listening to all this advice. I agree I won't do this by letter.

Letting him have the baby on his own is probably a good idea, and to be fair he does keep saying he will be happy to do this. I may organise lunch with my one non-baby friend and leave him to it.

He is drinking too much, yes, I think so. This is a separate issue which I have spoken to him about. I basically said I think he drinks too much and that it is making him more selfish than he is without drink.

Pregnancy was fine for me, I had no real problems at all. The birth was horrendous - one thing I did let go at the time was that DH was sent home 2 hours after he was born as it was late but he didn't turn up at the hospital as he'd drunk a bottle of wine when he got home and slept through the alarm. So I was basically on my own for 12 hours with the new baby. I let that slide because the birth was pretty hard to watch, and he had been up all night so was obv very tired.

Didn't turn up at the hospital til gone 11 AM I meant.

If you want some advice.. you cannot expect him to second guess that you are tired and need a rest. You need to spell things out clearly at the time and deal with one issue at a time. You don't need to get emotional or shout or scream you just need to be assertive and put your point accross clearly.

Explain why you are tired and need the rest and would need a help. I feel for you it can be a tiredness competition at first.

Don't give him a letter, explain coolly and calmly. Above all be crystal clear and don't get emotional.

I posted very similarly to yourself about 2.5 yrs ago when DS was born. DH wasn't being as big a waste of space as yours is, and as I found coping with the nights so hard, he was fab and ended up doing 3 full nights a week to let me get some sleep and keep my sanity. However I found it so hard to understand why this man that I loved and I thought loved me was being so bloody unfair and letting me do all the donkey work all the time. Its been a long slog since then, it gets a heck of a lot easier once DS started sleeping, and now he is a toddler DH does much much more of the entertaining than I do ( although still most of grunt work such as remembering that nappies need changed every 4 hours or so falls down to me)

I had some great advice from people including buying the book "Babyshock". This talks a lot about the changes that a family goes through when a baby is born and how to work through the issues.

Also if your DH is being naff all use at night time and is making you worry about co-sleeping and affecting your BF supply, kick him into the spare room. That way he gets undisturbed sleep during the week and at the weekends then he should be fully refreshed enough to at least do one night on duty, ideally without drinking beforehand.

Oh and don't send the letter, honestly it's madness and will solve nothing. If you must then construct an emotion free email where you outline what you believe to be a fair split of duties and suggest that you use this as a basis for discussion. Better still write it down and have a chat about it.

Good luck, it will get much much better shortly.

Take each issue at a time .. don't group a number of behaviours together and label it..

Agree with rookie but would say get him involved in helping resolve the situation, present the situation as problem that you both need to solve..

I think the issue here is his lack of undersstanding re how your life has changed. My DH loved our DD to bits- to the extent that he got too involved in certain areas of the process (refused to let me do controlled crying with her- would not ff as he wanted me to bf even though I struggled for the 6mths I did it etc etc etc) and undermined everything I did with her. We argued about this constantly. With DS I have to warn DH to back off and let me do it my way which he then took to extremes which felt like he was trying to punish me for putting my foot down. Sometimes you feel like you can't win but you HAVE to talk to him. Take some advice re delivery- don't talk to him late at night or when you are stupidly tired (I know you think you're stupidly tired all the time but we all know there are degrees of tiredness). I wish I'd have chosen my times better/ put things less emotively ('you just don't understand etc etc etc') and I wouldn't have to put so much effort into patching up my badly damaged marriage now.

Grrr - obviously I'm a hard-nosed bitch, but I don't get this attitude that men are delicate little creatures who need to be protected from life's harder aspects. I mean, YOU go through a traumatic birth experience, so HE needs to be cut some slack?

Grrrr....

(Partly Grrrr because this rings bells for me - DS2's birth was relatively easy but I had a nasty perineal wound and was in a lot of discomfort for a couple of weeks afterwards, and DP behaved like a lazy twunt for much of that time. Believe me, I did NOT tiptoe around his feelings though!)

Oh you poor thing - I went through this with my DH too. We used to go to friends houses (his friends) and they would not so gently hint that my poor DH was really tired and that I shouldn't get him to do any night feeds. Apparently, this was very unreasonable of me as I was "at home all day". Needless to say, Vesuvius had nothing on me when we got home!

You have to keep communicating but stop playing the "I'm more tired than you" game. My DH and I did and it was only when DD was about 8 months old (she's now 1 yo) that our marriage got back on track.

DH now says that when he got home, rather than telling me how tired he was, he should have cleared up, done the dishes, got dinner on and then come and grabbed DD for a snuggle whilst I had an hours sleep. Looking back, had he done that, it would have been so much easier on us all. Then again, I should not have shouted at him due to my daily frustrations with DD (she was a poor sleeper until she was 5 m/o and would not let me sit down with her).

It's hard but you need to keep talking and know that you will get through this. You really will. He needs to get his arse into gear too - you created your baby together and so you both have the responsibility for the care of your baby.

Good luck and keep checking in - I found this site to be so very helpful.

I'm with the WONK on this one. Put your foot down, don't be a martyr!