re DH (and the world's) attitude to work?

[needtofeelinlove]

DH has been away for the last week on business. He left last Monday and got back midday Saturday. This meant he missed our son's third birthday party. He spent the rest of Saturday recovering from jetlag.

This week he goes away from Tuesday till Friday on business. So I was doing meal planning for the week and asked if he was going to be here on Monday night for dinner (incidentally DS2s 3rd birthday) and he said: 'Well it's the only day I'm going to be in the office this week so will probably be back late.'

I understand. He's been away for a week out of the office and will be away again this week so needs to catch up, but why is it acceptable that because he's not going to be in the office for the week ahead, he should work late rather than say: I'm not going to be with my family again all week so I'll get back early?

This isn't even a dig at my DH. It just seems to be the way people are expected to work - work comes first, family comes second. And it pisses me off.

I probably am being unreasonable but it just doesn't seem right.

I too have a dh who works longs hours. He usually comes home about 6.30/7.00 to see the dc before bed and then goes back in again about 8pm and is usually not home until midnight or beyond. He does have a home office and very occasionally works from home in the evening.

I have lost count of the times he has had to let either of the dc down over plays/assemblies and Christmas type things. For the past 2 years I have had to buy all the dc presents by myself. That is probably not a big deal but we used to do these things together and I feel sad now having to do them on by own.

I really lost it one day, so much so that my poor dh thought I was going to leave him, he went to speak to his boss and ended up in tears (something he never does). His boss ended up sending me personally £500 in gift voucherrs.

Dh has promised that now ds has started school full-time Mon, Tues & Weds he will have some time off so we can do things together, like diy, gardening etc, but it remains to be seen.

Work related travel is really tough on family life and relationships.

Can your DH not scale back the amount he travels for work? Change jobs?

NTFIL I do understnd your frustation, BUT your 2nd post is interesting. Your DH WAS trying to help, he was suggesting a practical solution. Someone who can do the housework, help you a bit, make it quicker to feed he family so the time you spend is 'quality' time.

An Aupiar could helpw ith some of the chores, and ready meals sometimes are not going to kill them.

I work full time, and LONGish hours and I am the main breadwinner. However right now I am at home recoverig from a serious operation. All I can think is how much work I am missing!! I went to teh GP who insisted I take another week off - I agreed, but when i said I want to go back next monday he suggested I take 2 or 3 MORE weeks off!! I cannot imagine this (aside from dying of boredom) Time off for me means longer hours when I get back to cath up. My job moves fast and I am worrid abiut all the lost opportunities already!!! HOWEVER I AM A SADDO!

Seriously though do think about help, you cannot be wonderwoman and trying to work, feed your kids freshly prepared my mummys loving hand food and have TIME is almost impossible without help. I am lucky DH does the kids stuff and the 'fresh food' only comes in at teh weekend or when I am around.

I've taken a real interest in this thread, though don't have any very helpful advice for the OP - I think the career you enter B.C (before children)sends you along a path that is quite difficult practically, emotionally, and financially to veer too far from once children come along - no matter how heartbreaking the consequences are. Particularly in current economic climate - it's terrifying to imagine breaking out into some unknown different territory - even it just means another company in the same industry.

I'm now in a situation where I work FT and my DH is a SAHD. He got made redundant twice last year. When weighing up our options, it occured to us that financially we weren't that much better off with him working - certainly not enough to compensate for the kids being looked after by a 3rd party.

The difference for me is that my length of service at my company, coupled with the fact that I'm the youngest in a dept staffed entirely by woman with children, means that we are able to cut each other some slack when it comes to family committements, so I don't often find myself in the situation the OP's husband does. That said, my line of work does often require me to work evenings too, but I try to limit that to once a week. I also often work weekends but I can do it once the kids are in bed. So I guess it is possible in some cases to work a high paying, demanding job yet have flexibility for family, but it may be unique to my line of work because I'm not really responding to clients - we are generating our own "product" and so dictate our own pace.

I've been in my job 11 years, I early around £80K. So I can just about pay our whopping great London mortgage and support the family in a nice lifestyle. But

But...not the kind of lifestyle that I always feels compensates how bloody hard I work!

I think some people including women, including me, are like Needfor's spouse - although most of us want some time with our families those who aren't into work just don't seem to understand how compelling adn almost fun some of these jobs are ; how you might actually prefer be getting the work done than being with the child at bed time every night. now Monday - Wed this week I have been able to be here to help with children's home work etc which is nice and I am working around that but I'll be in Frankfurt at the end of the week.

The comment above by someone that the work is never done just like the housework is nevre done (and the old sexist phrase a woman's work is never done) is true up to a point nad most adults who competently manage work/life balance tend to be the men and women who can stop and say I've done a good enough job of that work or that child task and now I've done enough and I don't feel guilty or wrong, I'm just stopping rather than agonising over not having done enough at either task.

Look at all these Lehmann bankers being laid off today (100O of them). They will suddenly find they are home with their children and no work - massive change but a lot of those jobs are high risk and you either do what's required or you leave (or even leave through no fault of your own because of decisions taken by others).

I think what really helps is having the same view as a spouse about how much each of you "should" spend with chidlren. Most couples i know where both work which is very common usualyl they like one or other parent to put the chidlren to bed each night. I think that's a very nic thing to achieve if you can manage it or one takes the children to school and the other does an evening shift. I suspect the worst model is wife at home rather fed up about beibng a house wife and very pressured husband working all the hours there are and never much seeing family or spouse.

Nametaken, there are plenty of men for whom family does come first. I deliberatly married one. He is an Operations Manager. Decent salary. Nothing great. He works hard. Often does put in too many hours. But also has a good balance. My dh comes home at 5.05pm every night for the last .... 6mths.
There are firms that expect alot. But there are firms where there is balance. I currently work for one. Managers earn about £60k. They work very hard. And do stay if needs must. But that is rare. Contracts manager, Management Accountant, and Finance Director normally go home at 5.30pm. Finance Director regularly stays until 8.30pm. Everyone taks about him - his work/family ethics.

Sorry the guy who stays is the Finance Manager - on less money than all the other managers I have named. He is the one that stays late.

I remember staying out thought when my marriage was very bad, delaying the time I got home to be abused etc. Or occasionally when putting 3 children udner 4 to bed as we had at one stage was such an onerous job, all at their worst at bed time may be one night in every 2 or 3 weeks working late deliberately just to get that one night without that hassle.

I've done that too. When dh was a SAHD and we weren't getting on well. It was a really bad idea, because we lost contact, stopped getting on at all well, and our marriage very nearly foundered. There is a cost to neglecting your family, and those who love work too well should bear that in mind. If you are never at home then you risk becoming superflous.

Yes, but sometimes a marriage is so bad that people want to be apart was my part and some of these men (or women) staying out may not really be treated very well at home hence their staying away.

The work/life balance is a difficult one. They say that not many people feel, on their deathbed, that they wish they'd spent more time in the office. On the other hand, no one wants to lose their job when they have a young family either. Main breadwinner's job means financial stability for the family. There's certainly some financial sense in having 2 more or less equal breadwinners rather than 1 big bucks breadwinner - if only that it could mean less income tax paid on the household income. But it's not that easy to arrange and when pre-school children are in the family it has big childcare implications.

So I can see why the OP is pissed off. I sympathise and I don't think there are any easy answers.

so , needtofila - did he get home in time to see your DS on his 3rd b'day? and if not, did your DS mind?

The trouble is that it can be a vicious circle. If you spend no time together you can drift apart. The little angers don't get resolved, and the important moments are missed. Sometimes the falling apart happens before the staying at work, and patterns like that can on the face of it keep the family together, but in other cases things could have been resolved and rebuilt but the chance to resolve things gets lost.

I think living for work is risky because it puts all your eggs in one basket, and if things go wrong at work then the person has no fall back. I also that if you always put work first you should not expect everyone else to wait until you can spare them time.

I don't think you are BU and I like the gfact that in the thread title its "the wolds"attitude to work.My dh is currently at work ,he will probably go through the night tonight and has gone through two nights on the trot in the past ,its what clients expect .His blackberry goes nonstop and the other week he had to do a confernece call at 9pm on a Sunday night when by his own admission there was no reason why it could not have been done on Monday morning .Frankly I think the world has gone mad ,no one is ever allowed time off they must be contactable at all times,people used to make decisions now they just Email as many people as possible and try to pass the buck!

I know my dh would like to see more of the children and some of my friends whose dhs don't have these sorts of jobs think he is mad but although I occiaionally rant I know that that is the job he is in.At 43 is is not that easy to have a career change .

Xenia - I read something else by you on gender equality today and thought,spot on.

DH didn't get back in time to see DS. He got to open presents with DS in the morning but that was all. DS didn't seem overly bothered that daddy wasn't there in the evening but my older son (4.5) said: When you've finished bathing us, and daddy gets home, can he read us the new story books? And I had to tell him that daddy probably wouldn't be home in time but that he could do in on the weekend - which is when he will next see him.

He was sad - but quickly forgot about it. The childminder did say to me though that DS2 had specifically mentioned that daddy wasn't there for his party.

I think it does have an impact on them - and as they get older, I think it will get worse. PErhaps in a way it's better for DH to put all the long hours in now so that he can cut back when they're between 5 and 10 years old. But somehow I don't see that happening.

Then again, you see all the people losing their jobs and the financial fall out going on and you think: well perhaps he really does need to put the hours in now to make sure we're secure.

It sucks any which way you look at it.

My DH works terribly long hours and travels a lot so I understand how hard it can be on your own.
That said, I don't worry about it. I see him as providing for us all. Kids go to a fab school and I don't have to work which gave me the luxury to follow my own dream.

Agree OP.
My DH is a realfamily man but unfortunately has to work every weekend - he only gets every other Sunday off and a day in week when I am working. But on the plus side he does get to look after DS.
But we do crave more family time. Weekends can seem quite long at times because all my other friends are with their other halves.
DH will switch jobs when we move - can't wait.

My dh and I have both made sacrifices with our careers (but tbh we are happy with the decisions we have made).

He works in the car industry, and works very regular hours, early start but home by 4.30 most evenings. He has not pursued promotion and does not have to go on business trips or do a lot of overtime etc. However the downside to this is that he doesn't have a massive salary.

I am a nurse and managed to get to a fairly senior position prior to having the dcs. Everyone in my team works shifts, so although I work part time it is not as noticeable as it would be in an office as every team member is in and out on different days. I cover for the full timers on their days off and they cover for me. If I went full time my ft salary would be about 60-70% more than my dh's. The downside of course is the crap hours (a lot of weekends and evenings etc)

However I had to smile at Xenia's comments re bedtime. I work late shifts once or twice a week and dh has to do bedtime. I come home late in the evening with (generally) the clearing up done and the dds in bed.

Dh and I do a lot of "covering" for each other in terms of childcare. We feel very fortunate that we have a system that works for us. I sometimes feel that he should have more of a break - e.g. working ft all week then with the dcs all weekend when I am working.

He is adamant that he doesn't see it like that, he loves spending time with them, and gets frustrated when friends' dhs make a real song and dance if they "do the wife a favour" by taking the dcs for the park for an hour or whatever.

Should also point out that whilst lots of DH/DPs work long hours there are those that don't but spend hours down the pub, playing golf, in the gym, going to the other end of the country to watch matches.

Should also point out that whilst lots of DH/DPs work long hours there are those that don't but spend hours down the pub, playing golf, in the gym, going to the other end of the country to watch matches.

Just read quickly through these posting and although this may incur a lot of disagreement, we all have a choice. The problem is, it's not always easy to see it. It's not always just a 'find another job' scenario, but I think we carry a lot of baggage from early in our careers where 'face time' and 'willing to travel' is something we feel is vital to our survival at work.

OK, I'm not saying this will work for everyone, but a lawley friend of mine was in a very simialr situation and I asked her why she couldn't work from home for part of her week to get a better balance. She told me no one did that where she worked, so I cheekily told her she could be the first. She was great at her job and didn't need to prove herself anymore, her track record sopke for itself. she now does half her week from home.

My choice was to leave the corporate world and go independent, best decision (expect for having dd!) ever made.

Often the barriers we think we face are only there because we don't challenge our assumptions. Here's to you and dh being brave and creating a life that works for your family.

I thing it is something to be considered when embarking on a career. I thought about being an MP when I was a teenager (well in fact as a very arrogant teenager I thought about being PM ) but decided that the life of an MP was so incredibly unfamily friendly it wasn't a goer. In the same way I would like to be a management consultant, but have put this on hold until my children are much older. I guess this is more difficult when picking a husband, although I did like the fact that my husband to be wanted to be a teacher/writer. Unfortunately it hasn't turned out that way, but I don't think I would have been happy to choose someone who put their career first, because my career is very important to me too, and I don't think it is easy to have two people in a family pushing a career at the same time.

YANBU - people work far too hard and too long hours and it does have a detrimental effect on DCs. All the bills have to be paid too though.

I would say that your DH needs to think long and hard about this.