AIBU - to think that adverts for follow on formula should acknowledge breastfeeding...

[GillianLovesMarmite]

Having just seen the advert on tv for heinz (now hideously overpriced) Nurture (follow on forumla) which delivered the message that it is the best thing you can give your baby for its development...
Do you think it would be unreasonable that these adverts should recognise breastfeeding - eg saying that if you are breastfeeding that this is great and providing what your child needs, however, if you have chosen not to breastfeed or have chosen to formula feed, that this is then the stuff for you... and that the 6 month time thing is not a deadline to stop at but a target to aim for.
I realise that by 6 months I am now in a minority of mothers who are still breastfeeding. I acknowledge that everyone has a right to choose how to feed their child, or that sometimes the choice is made for them, often by conditions or factors outside of their control and I would NEVER presume to judge how another woman feeds her child.
However, I just think it would be appropriate for these adverts to acknowledge that if you are breastfeeding you don't need this stuff - although in the real world I know that this will never happen as they have a product to sell - but do you (whether bfing or ffing) think that this would be an unreasonable thing for the companies to do?

(Sorry for the long post - just really really annoyed by the advert).

Have not read entire thread, but can imagine the ff/bf debate has kicked off etc.

BUT can I put another point of view across.

I live in the real world and actually sell medical devices to orthopaedic surgeons.
I work for a massive medical company which has a huge range of baby products in one of its other franchises.

These companies are a BUSINESS as is the formula companies, and whilst they do have a duty of care to patients/people at the end of the day their sole aim is to make money so WHY would they encourage BF? this would only contribute to more mothers bf, and the market share of ff would diminish and that is not good for a company which is looking for growth every year.

Now my company is looking for double digit growth every year and by this it means more people having to have their shoulder injured or knee injured and hence increase surgery and hence increase the use of my products.

Now my company puts millions of pounds into ensuring that the patient gets the BEST treatment possible as does the ff company who believe that theirs is the best formula for each baby.

So I benefit because I am paid a good wage and able to bring my family up, the county benefits because of all the taxes we pay and the NHS benefits because they get fantastic training from these companies.

The problem with the low rates of bf in this country is an attitudinal and educational one.

I was so determined to bf but recieved shit care so left hospital with bleeding cracked nipples- I persevered with the help of a very good Health visitor,but how many other mums would have given up?

My point is , instead of having a pop at the formula companies, you should be venting your frustration and passion with the department of health to enoourage adequate support of bf to new mothers

Phew rant over

I

In answer to the OP, I dont think the advert states that their product is best or that BF is portrayed in a negative way at all. Its just one product, if I see an advert for a bar of chocolate I can still decide I prefer another etc.

Too much emphasis is already placed on BF and its so heavily pushed by midwifes. Yet FF doesnt hardly get any mention.

I choose to FF before even conceiving DS, I had absolutely no desire to BF and didnt. It would have been nice to see more info on the different types of formulas readily available.

I am 100% happy with my choice and even though we dont plan any more children, if we do change our minds I would FF again.

Why?
Don't we we all know about breastfeeding already?? It's pretty much rammed down our throats from conception onwards.

BTW, totally agree with Happymumofone

..as has been said on this thread already and countless others beforehand, FF does not need promotion as it is already the social norm in this country. BFing needs promotion as it is the best thing for the baby and for the mum and has such a poor take up rate in this country. I can't remember the figures off the top of my head, but only a small percentage of mums who start off BFing are still doing so at six weeks, and an even smaller minority at six months and beyond.

This is partly because of a lack of support, or knowledge where to find that support and partly due to the fact that formula is so readily available and so heavily advertised to HCPs as well as to the public in the guise of follow on milk adverts.

Gateau, I have never seen BFing rammed down anyone's throat and in all three pregnancies have never felt that I have been pressured into BFing. The information on the benefits has been available, but I, like a lot of people, would like to see some information readily available on the risks of FF, and those risks do exist. If I am going to be feeding something to my child which is artificially formulated from milk that is meant for another mammal and then has lots of things added to it that I would think twice about consuming myself, I would like to see some information on the possible long-term health implications of that product. Why, oh why, do defensive FFers think that is BAD THING?

id on't get the whole "follow on" milk thing - its made up shit

Ok, I've said this before, but we need information on formula milk, and information on breastfeeding.

If the information was truthful and unbiased it would say something like this.

"Hi, we're and we make formula milk for babies. It is a substitute, albeit a poor second, to breastmilk for feeding infants from birth until approximately the age of one year old.

Our milk contains *Water, but not enough so your baby will need extra boiled water.
*Protein, but in too high a concentration so it has to be diluted which lowers the calorie content and then has to be supplemented with lactose.
*Fat, which is less easily absorbed then breastmilk fat.
*Carbohydrate, but in insufficient quantity so lactose has to be added.
*Vitamins and minerals, but not enough so many formulas are enriched with extra vitamins and extra iron.

and sometimes other things we have created in our labs which we have labelled as prebiotics(?) and used to claim this milk is closest to breastmilk, when in fact it is closest to cows milk.

Our milk is packaged and marketed to be bought by the most customers so is pretty darn expensive and although people may tell you otherwise, it will not harm your baby to change it's milk, so you can swap and choose as you like to see which one suits your child's make-up best.

Ideally your child should be fed breastmilk, as it is what is provided by nature for them, but as not everyone wants or is able to breastfeed we have made this milk to make an awful lot of money in this gap in the market, but if you do choose to use our formula instead of breastmilk, you will be putting your child at risk of more gastro problems, allergies, higher risk of heart diease later in life, doubling the risk of chest infections between birth and seven, doubling the risk of ear infections, making it five times more likely to suffer from urinary tract infections, and also will make the mother more at risk of osteoporosis, breast cancer and ovarian cancer."

Still waiting for that advert and until then I shall never agree with anything other than promotion of breastfeeding and a ban on all formula advertising.

lackadaisy, I am not referring to you or your experiences. I - and I know countless other people - have had BF rammed down their throats.
I - or rather my poor little DS - had a VERY BAD experience in hospital because of it.
IIMO it gets a lot of publicity already and does not need to be mentioned on an ad for formula milk.

I'm pretty sure that legally, it absolutely does have to be mentioned on the follow on milk ads.

Perhaps VS can clarify that one?

Riiiight...I have had babies in two London Boroughs.

Here's how they would promote bfing from my experience:

"We will put bfing posters everywhere featuring bountifully breasted women on every spare wall and advertise bfing support groups miles away from your home.

We will ask you in your booking appointment how you will be feeding your baby.

We will ask in an angry voice why you aren't breastfeeding and then ask you why you are crying when you can't get your baby to latch on.

When you sitting up in bed with your top half uncovered desperately trying to feed your baby we will cover our eyes and mutter about coming back later.

We will allow your baby to become underweight as you try to bf, we couldn't possible suggest ff.

We will check on you trying to bf and say you're doing that wrong, but won't try to show how it should be done.

When you say that you ff your first child we will say helpful things like: you should relax.

Honestly, we don't ram it down people's throats we just make you feel like shit when you 'Don't try hard enough'."

It does have to be mentioned on the ads. There are health risks in using formula milk rather than breastfeeding so just like alcohol and tobacco have to inform you of those risks, so do formula milk companies.

Well said, bumdiddley.
It's really disgusting how some new Mums and their babies are treated.

kiskidee.. can I just weigh in here - I phoned lll 8 times and got no answer after 3 weeks of blocked duct/mastitus (3 visits to GP, lots to m/w etc) and got just answering machine, took 5 days for the specislist from hospital to get back to me adn got no reply from nct... forgive me for being very about the help that is available even if it is there.

and as for b/f issues being easy to treat maybe.. but no one told me that it would involve repeat visits to a breast specialist consultant after trying to latch etc...

I'm sorry but although I know b/f best option for baby , please dont oversimplify that all problems would be solved if you had support etc -I have found the whole b/f failure issue very stressful . Whilst I agree that ads are not the best way to provide infomration, a bit more balanced info/help on ff in the way you can get info on bf would have been very welcome.

I totally agree the NHS doesn't provide enough help for breastfeeding mothers, midwives/gps/hvs are not trained in breastfeeding and often give crap advice and none of them seem ready to hand you over to the experts..
That has no relation to formula milk being advertised though.

poppy34 - me too

Poppy, I'm sorry you didn't get any help. Really sorry, but to be fair a breast doesn't come with instructions, a tin of formula does.

So what if it has no relation to the advertising.
People want to say it - so they can say it.

VS - as I said before. I think it should be advertised and discussed so you can make an informed choice on which to feed your baby -once you have been failed by Health Care Professionals

YANBU, sorry only read first page so probably repeating others but
A - ff is not taboo, fgs only about 20% of women bf exclusivly past 6 weeks in this country to the idea that it is taboo is just tosh
B - the op was upset by the advert, not ff in princple, she was not having a go at anyone ffing
C - there is no need for these adverts, there is no research comparing formulas, none can say it is better than others, ff as I said is perfectly acceptable the companies clearly want to increase number of women ffing using the most expensive brands
D - the current one says 'not intended to replace brestfeeding, breast feeding is best for first 6months'

It is also best for first 2years really, and this statement implies that after 6month ff is best and so is just wrong! They should ban all ff adverts
Note the ff ADVERTS obviously ff is necessery and formula and advise on making up bottles etc should be widely available (and is)

"My point is , instead of having a pop at the formula companies"

Formula companies have a vested interest - as you point out - in women choosing not to breastfeed and in women failing with breastfeeding. These companies ARE manipulative and their marketing and information materials on both breast and bottlefeeding - which are extensive, are often subtly misleading and unhelpful to continued breastfeeding.

Just one example of this: all the formula company websites have a section which covers breastfeeding difficulties. Not one of these mentions the central role of the voluntary agencies who provide the best information and support for women struggling with breastfeeding. Why not? Not one mentions the risks of mixed feeding? Why not? The information on this subject on the Cow and Gate website positively misleads women into thinking that in mixed feeding women can get all the advantages of both breast and bottlefeeding, when in fact we all know that this is not the case.

Re: "the ff company who believe that theirs is the best formula for each baby" - do you really believe this? The way formula is made and marketed has got as much to do with profit margins as anything else. Parents can't know which formula is 'best' and neither can individual formula companies - because there is no controlled, randomised testing of the different brands with long term follow up on large groups of babies.

And the benefit in terms of tax revenue from the companies is probably more than cancelled out in terms of costs to the NHS in treating the higher rates of illness that are linked to artificial feeding.

"The problem with the low rates of bf in this country is an attitudinal and educational one"

Yes - this is true. But our attitudes about both breast and formula feeding are partially shaped by the marketing and advertising we're exposed to on a day to day basis - there is no denying this. If it wasn't the case then neither the NHS or the formula companies would bother spending so much money on breastfeeding and formula promotion in their attempts to influence our feelings and behaviour when it comes to how we feed our babies. (worth pointing out though that the formula companies spend at least 10 times as much on formula promotion as the NHS spends on promoting bf).

It's also the case that these companies have been allowed to assume an educational role in relation to infant feeding, which sometimes conflicts with their primary purpose, which is to turn a profit for their shareholders.

Gateau and Happymummyofone - I have never known any woman to have a chance to sit down with a midwife prior to the birth of her baby and have a chance to really talk through all the complex issues involved in choosing how to feed a baby. Most women get the 'breast is best' message repeated to them ad nauseum by midwives (who themselves may well not be well educated on this subject) - that doesn't mean they are well informed on the differences between breast and formula feeding.

When I chose how I was going to feed my first baby I had absolutely no idea about any of the medical research in this area, or about any of the more complex or subtle developmental issues at stake. I now think it's shocking that I was allowed to make a decision of such importance to my baby based on the superficial information I got from friends, advertising, NHS leaflets and baby magazines.........

" Too much emphasis is already placed on BF and its so heavily pushed by midwifes. Yet FF doesnt hardly get any mention"

The NHS is in the business of health promotion. Why on earth would it consider it its business to promote a method of feeding which results in higher levels of illness in babies? Midwives are responsible for the health of mothers and their babies. They have a duty to advocate for your baby and encourage you to make the healthiest choices for them - ie, not smoke, not drink, eat well during pregnancy, and then breastfeed your baby once they're born.

victoriansqualor - I see what you're saying - as f/f more a matter of amount/brand and itstrue re bf . Whatever nct etc did teach about it (I went to antenatal classes , spoke to m/w and really tried my hardest to find out all I could /read around it which I think made it worse when didnt work out )... but the reality of how you/your baby feed are vry different to knowing what the theory is..

Gateau, stop skipping over points and throwing in random posts.

The point being made is about formula advertising, not people being failed by HCP'S.

If anything breastfeeding should be promoted more to prevent mothers being failed, rather than less, and in the same instance formula needs no advertising, we all know where to buy a tin of formula, and those who say they needed more info on it all info available on formula feeding is in your birth to five book.