do i REALLY have to explain why me and dh rent our house?

[spudFace]

we have been together for 20 years and have never had loads of money to save for a mortgage. what makes it worse is that my parents are very well off and have watched us struggle (and suffer) over the years. I am sick of telling people that i rent cos of all this but should i have to? i know that this subject will come up in conversation tomorrow with some new friends i have made recently. Am sick of the puzzled looks i get when i say I RENT MY HOUSE!!

what CAN i say to just tell people its none of their beeswax?

I rent and I'm very happy to - no way would I buy somewhere in a crappy area just because I might just be able to afford it. Although, having said that it would be nice if magically the house would come into my possession so I didn't have to ask everytime I want to put up some shelves or paint a wall...

If you think that Squiffy, why don't you sell up and rent?
I'm not saying that to be argumentative, tis a genuine question.

I know a lot of countries don't rate home ownership. Does anyone know the reasons behind this way of thinking?

I wonder about this too. I wonder if it corresponds to differences in tenancy law, ie are tenants particularly poorly protected in this country?

'Expat and I had as much chance as anyone else to make those choices.'

Um, Ob, I wasn't even living in this country till 7 years ago.

I did own a home once. In another country. I lost it in a divorce.

And also, nowhere did I condemn owners.

Good on 'em!

I'm glad they were able to buy or are still able to, like WWW.

IB, tenants are comparitively poorly protected in this country, particularly in relation to Continental Europe.

I have only ever lived in Germany and France and tenancy laws were much different from British ones, particularly in Germany.

The 'short-assured' tenancy may or may not offer as much stability to a privately renting tenant, given that it's only for 6 months.

There are some landlords on here, however, who have contracted longer lease terms with their tenants.

What is 'assured tenancy'?

'lol at the idea that old popele are treated better abroad( thinks back to french heat of 2003 and all theold pople dumped in hospitals)'

Cod!

Seriously?

I missed all that.

Big Brother was actually good that year!

An assured tenancy is offered from a social landlord.

It has no time limit.

It is up to the tenant to decide when he/she wishes to terminate the occupancy (unless evicted) and give notice to quit.

So like a council house/housing association?

Yes, a council/HA or any 'registered social landlord' can offer an assured tenancy.

It just keeps going on and on and can even carry on after the death or the tenant(s) in some cases.

Some private landlords contract with councils to offer the use of their premises as temporary accommodation as well - this happens in Edinburgh - in order to alleviate homelessness. The council pays the rent directly to the private landlord.

I can understand the attractiveness of having a long term assured tenancy over a mortgage.

I thought that when people spoke about how people prefered to rent in other countries they were talking about renting from a private landlord?

in Germany I knew a large number of people who rented from a private landlord.

but over there - Califrau, emkana, nighbynight, where are you?! - all the tenancies were assured, IIRC (excepting some landlords who had permission to do short term lets to say, visiting academics or people in the country for a short stay).

the landlord needs a reason to move the tenant on, not just selling up.

similarly, the tenant has to give a much longer notice to quit.

So the natural assumption in those countries is that renting is long term.
So its understandable why they prefer to rent rather than buy.

yes, as Califrau pointed out, most people rent long-term there.

My ex h relocated to Germany. He makes a very good salary, but he rents as well. As a German, he finds buying odd and a hassle and just doesn't see the point, but does agree that the intense desire for home-ownership is a very British and American thing.

It possibly stems from tenancy laws in the UK, that's probably a factor.

German mortgages, too, tend to be fixed interest for a far longer period of time, even the course of the entire mortgage - 25 to 30 years - obstensibly to provide more stability in the market.

When people say 'people in different countries think we mad for home owning' its a naff statment to make as comparisons cannot be drawn between what we expect from our renting market and what people abroad expect.

Yes but it's a chicken and egg situation - are tenants better protected abroad because they make up such a high proportion of the market and can insist on better terms, or have the better terms led to more peple choosing to rent?

If I recall, we had similar assurances of tenancy before it was all overhauled (I think) during the Thatcher years? And I am sure it was the dismantling that led to the huge growth of home ownership as an aspiration?

Squiffy - Thats because want security. If they can't have it through assured tenancy then they will try to achieve security through homeownership

The whole right to buy movement made home ownership rates much higher in the UK, and brought in the social norm of home owning. It's as much cultural as economic. I can't see that changing unless the maths change so much that home ownership loses it social cache. The problem with Squiffy's argument is that it assumes both house prices and the stock market are uniform. Which obviously they aren't. Shares in companies go up and down depending on many factors, and as to whether you lose or gain depends on your skill and knowledge (or luck) in what you invest in. In a similar way different areas experience different fluctuations in prices, so there is some skill or luck in that too. You can also add value (or spend money) on a house. My father (an accountant) has always encouraged us to buy our houses as early as possible (and provided deposits) and to think of them as long term investments, that ideally should be paired with other investments, in order to hedge against downturns. My flat was bought for 60k and sold 10 years later for 240k, which was a pretty good investment in my book - my small share portfolio certainly did not show the same increase, and I got somewhere to live in the bargain. However the house I bought subsequently has probably lost value, so I will need to hold onto it for a few years I suspect. It is a gamble and I think the problem is that people have stopped thinking about home ownership in that way which is why so many people have got into trouble.

I don't see homeownership as a gamble if you are talking long term nooka, should I?

I wouldn't rent long-term unless I absolutely had to, and not really for financial/investment reasons either.

This is based purely on 9 years of really crappy landlords - I know I was probably really unlucky, in a few short years I had:

• male landlord who kept letting himself in to the house and coming into my bedroom and going through my things.

• landlady whose daughter was a heroin addict, let herself in with a key and stole my laptop.

• another landlord who didn't bother abiding by the 48 hours notice rule (or whatever it is) to enter a property. Sent round some woman to paint my bedroom early one morning while I was still in bed with my then DP.

The list goes one. Truly horrendous experience.

It's also nice to be able to do things like decorate the way you want to, smoke should you choose to, have a pet etc etc. I don't think renting in Britain is tenant-focused at all in a way I suspect it is in those countries where long-term renting is the norm.

why do you need to tell people? more to the point, why do they even ask?

There used to be virtually no rented housing in the UK. I was one of the early buy to letters with my impeccable market timing managed to lose money in the last property recession but that's by the by. I remember the days when no one would buy to let because once your tenant was in they wer ein forever. The rent acts destroyed the private letting market in the UK and property only became available again because the law was changed so you had a right to get someone out after a year with shortholds etc.

A return to security of tenure for life and possibly for your children's lives too would just dry up supply over night unless you become a communist state and the state provide housing for all free of charge.

I can understand your point Xenia, but how come long term rent assurances work abroad?

Squiffy, based on your sums, over the past decade it has been financially better to own than rent due to the 300%+ rise in capital values.

I take your point that it is a gamble but given that most housing decisions are taken over 25 years +, empirical evidence supports buying over renting in the UK.