Maybe I'm just a woolly minded liberal...

[Gizmo]

OK, so I?m outrageously middle class. Grow my own herbs, drive a Volvo etc etc. Live in an area of wall to wall Semi-Detached Victoriana, mainly inhabited by People Like Us. Who are, generally, very nice and helpful neighbours.

Now, a few doors down from me is a pair of houses owned by the Council, one of which is occupied by some People Not Like Us: a family of nine (kids from 3 to about 16) who are ? horrors! ? working class. Guilty of a) owning a beat up old pickup, b) having a lot of toys and bikes in their (unkempt) front garden and c) having the occasional noisy domestic.

Last night, when I got home from work, my neighbour-from-over-the-road knocked on my door and marched in, breathless with gossip. Apparently People Not Like Us had had a big row in the afternoon: properly serious ? Mrs People Not Like Us had gone after Mr People Not Like Us with a baseball bat in the street and had taken it out on his pick up, smashing the windscreen and the headlamps. Kids watching and everything.

So Mr Neighbour-from-over-the-road has rung the Council Housing Officer to complain. He was heavily hinting that I should do so too. And the more I think about it, the more I think he is an officious little prick:

1. I have never had any problem with this family: their kids are friendly and polite, Mr and Mrs People Not Like Us are OK too.
2. They may have a volatile relationship but I?ve not seen either of them, or their kids, with any physical damage. Nor do any of them seem subdued or bullied (with the possible exception of the youngest, but that?s another story)
3. If we do complain, and the family gets moved, exactly how does that help them? Mr Neighbour from over the road kept going on about how bad it must have been for the kids ? I?m sure it wasn?t fun, but getting moved is not going to help anyone.

Frankly I think the real agenda was only revealed as Mr Neighbour-from-over-the-road was leaving, when as a parting shot, he told me that an estate agent had told him that the reason the house next door to him was not selling was because of the presence of the People Not Like Us, which had reduced the value of the house by at least 50k.

So, AIBU to think Mr Neighbour-from-over-the-road is an unpleasant busybody? And to go and knock on Mrs People Not Like Us?s door and ask her if she wants to come round for a cup of tea sometime? What do people think?

See, generally I avoid AIBU like the plague - being as I am almost always right - but this particular problem has been haunting me for a couple of years now and actually, it's not an easy one.

I've taken exactly the line you suggest, Ginger: I have said firmly to nosey nieghbour that I will not report anything I do not witness or anything I do not regard to be a problem.

But. There is no doubt that this family are stressed and that mum has a temper on her. These facts I know (have witnessed last two) - mum has chased partner with a baseball bat. There are screaming matches late at night probably once every couple of months or so. The smallest child(ren) are frequently screaming loudly in the garden and that sometimes sounds like pain or fear.

I confess I am guilty of wanting to know more about the family, because sometimes I do wonder if all is well with the children. I chat occasionally to the two boys who are about my DS's age - they seem OK - noisy, active boys. The littlest ones (two girls) come out and play in the street, they're a bit less inclined to play and I can't get them chatting.

So, I could refuse to make assumptions and carry on being neighbourly, nothing more. But if I just ignore the screaming and mum being stressed/violent and it turns out there is a bigger problem where I could have helped, if I'd just been less squeamish about being nosey, well then I don't think I'll forgive myself easily.

But community is about getting involved when the going is good too and I've not seen any evidence of anyone beating her door down offering her tea before this incident which is why it feels like interference.

Gizmo. Are you the sort of person who feels you can cancel out the effects of being a judgmental snob with a spot of charity work?

Looks to me like Gizmo has not been guilty of ignoring them when the going is good.

Therefore she is not being interfering.

I'm not going to shout anyone down.

I do think the woman with the baseball bat is doing herself and the community any favours though. It works both ways - fair enough if she were being shunned just for having toys in her garden or whatever, but it sounds like she was behaving in a pretty out of control fashion. Maybe the male neighbour is elderly and frightened? Maybe he just doesn't want to see that kind of thing out of his front window? Or maybe he is just an interfering busybody who needs to make more of an effort.

The OP can't wave a magic wand so that everyone can get on - they all need to make an effort with each other for a community to work.

Gizmo, your last post raises totally different questions to your OP.

Your OP asked: "So, AIBU to think Mr Neighbour-from-over-the-road is an unpleasant busybody?"

Well, yes, you could well be being unreasonable - you don't know the full story.

Children screaming in fear/pain in the garden, the woman chasing the man with a baseball bat. I'm sorry, that's all rather worrying and totally different to your OP which basically seemed to be an attempt to slate your neighbour for finding this woman's behaviour unpleasant.

Swedes, I would say the answer to your question is no. But then I would say that, wouldn't I?

I get the impression you think differently.

Ho hummm. I guess I should carry on being neighbourly as before, and scratch the idea of showing any extra solidarity.

Sorry getting peeved now.

What unimpeachable motives and previous form should the OP possess in order to try to get to know this woman better?

Does trying to do good make her a snob? Or a do-gooder? Or a condescending member of the middle classes.

Gizmo, I don't want to sound like I'm picking on you but that is very different to your OP where you basically said the nosey neighbour didn't really have any grounds for his complaint and that the noisy neighbour was a bit rough but generally salt of the earth type. That isn't the case if she has a temper and chases people down the street with a baseball bat.

I wouldn't want to ignore those issues but I wouldn't feel it's up to me to solve her problems partly because a) we're all adults and can make choices about how we behave and b) would this family want my 'help'. I know you won't know unless you try but it's a balance between what you want to do and what they want you to do.

Any real chance that her children are at risk then I'd feel it my responsibility to do something ie report her.

But as a society are we not all too ready to report people to authorities and not get stuck in oursleves?

When did this become demonised as interfering middle class missionary work?

does she have a VW beetle without wheels in her front garden?

I only ask because I think you can tell a lot about a person from the wheel-less vehicle you can see from your front room window.

Well, the chasing people down the street with a baseball bat was part of the OP, Ginger, although rather lost in a hail of question marks!

But yes, I utterly agree, if there is a child protection issue, that is not up to me to fix, that is a job for the professionals. What I'm trying to avoid is assuming there is a child protection issue just because of the family's background - bear in mind I've not seen any evidence of injury or neglect to these children, I've just heard them screaming, and Lord, I know my children scream in the garden too.

Gizmo I just hope you don't get angsted out of doing what you want to do! (Whatever that is )

Not enough room for a VW in our front gardens, Squonk

If you mean not ignoring them by 'chatting occassionally to the two boys' then fair enough but that's hardly community spirit, that is politenenss and it doesn't equate to getting to know your neighbours.

Gizmo Neighbours fighting in the street and making a nuisance of themselves late at night must be very annoying. Why have you made it a class issue?

Sorry Ginger, didn't follow that last point?

But there are middle-class screams and working class screams.

So she's not qualified to want to get to know her neighbours now, because previously she hasn't got to know her neighbours?

pmsl at "people not like us" can theis thread win the award for the snobbiest one ever?

that last point was for Katisha.

Also for Katisha
'But as a society are we not all too ready to report people to authorities and not get stuck in oursleves?

When did this become demonised as interfering middle class missionary work?'

when you feel it's your business to 'fix' something you don't know anything about. If there are issues with the safety of a child it's your duty to report this so the issue is dealt with properly. The rest is hearsay.

2shoes it's IRONY

Swedes.

It was a (misfiring) attempt at lightheartedness, initially. And also I felt it had some relevance to my neighbour's reaction. In a nutshell, I felt he was being a nimby and a snob and he wouldn't be complaining quite so vociferously if noisy neighbour was a PLU type.

Having heard a few other POV, I'm reluctantly beginning to concede he might have a point.

Katisha, we'll never see eye to eye as the working class call this meal dinner and the next one tea, you poshos with your lunch!

I had hoped it would be obvious that the PLU and PNLU tags did not actually represent my views - but it seems I need to learn to express myself more clearly...