Maybe I'm just a woolly minded liberal...

[Gizmo]

OK, so I?m outrageously middle class. Grow my own herbs, drive a Volvo etc etc. Live in an area of wall to wall Semi-Detached Victoriana, mainly inhabited by People Like Us. Who are, generally, very nice and helpful neighbours.

Now, a few doors down from me is a pair of houses owned by the Council, one of which is occupied by some People Not Like Us: a family of nine (kids from 3 to about 16) who are ? horrors! ? working class. Guilty of a) owning a beat up old pickup, b) having a lot of toys and bikes in their (unkempt) front garden and c) having the occasional noisy domestic.

Last night, when I got home from work, my neighbour-from-over-the-road knocked on my door and marched in, breathless with gossip. Apparently People Not Like Us had had a big row in the afternoon: properly serious ? Mrs People Not Like Us had gone after Mr People Not Like Us with a baseball bat in the street and had taken it out on his pick up, smashing the windscreen and the headlamps. Kids watching and everything.

So Mr Neighbour-from-over-the-road has rung the Council Housing Officer to complain. He was heavily hinting that I should do so too. And the more I think about it, the more I think he is an officious little prick:

1. I have never had any problem with this family: their kids are friendly and polite, Mr and Mrs People Not Like Us are OK too.
2. They may have a volatile relationship but I?ve not seen either of them, or their kids, with any physical damage. Nor do any of them seem subdued or bullied (with the possible exception of the youngest, but that?s another story)
3. If we do complain, and the family gets moved, exactly how does that help them? Mr Neighbour from over the road kept going on about how bad it must have been for the kids ? I?m sure it wasn?t fun, but getting moved is not going to help anyone.

Frankly I think the real agenda was only revealed as Mr Neighbour-from-over-the-road was leaving, when as a parting shot, he told me that an estate agent had told him that the reason the house next door to him was not selling was because of the presence of the People Not Like Us, which had reduced the value of the house by at least 50k.

So, AIBU to think Mr Neighbour-from-over-the-road is an unpleasant busybody? And to go and knock on Mrs People Not Like Us?s door and ask her if she wants to come round for a cup of tea sometime? What do people think?

Well, there you go, Ginger: I was worried it might come off a bit 'Lady of the Manor-ish'

I have no idea whether she has any friends or not - I imagine she has. But I can see there are problems and I can either a) choose to ignore them or b) offer a bit of help, if she needs it. Whether she chooses to accept that help is up to her.

If I choose a) and things go tits up for her, then I will feel badly. The problem with choosing b) is that I'm being friendly with an agenda, which is not very natural and might come off as patronising.

You're neighbour sounds like mine Gizmo, a couple of years ago she knocked on our door asking us to write to the council to oppose a plan by her other neighbour to build an extension to their house. Her only reasoning for an objection was that since the neighbour in question is Chinese, he only wants to build an extension so he can house immigrants!! It was nothing to do with that fact that he has two strapping teenagers to house!

well I'm making the assumption that she needs a friend because I presume if she had any then the OP would have mentioned some coming and going of friendly types at the house, or perhaps said that the mum goes out in the evenings.

I am presuming also, that someone who has seven children AND a job has work colleagues, people she knows through school and her husband.

Because her neighbours aren't up to much (with the exception of Gizmo) and there isn't TIME for anything else.

Gizmo - these herbs you grow....would they be the sort that has a calming effect on your neighbour? If so, invite her round and pop them in her tea

My neighbours all hate me because I wouldn't sign the petition against a phone mast being put up in the street (they have to go somewhere, right?!). I don't think they've ever forgiven me. Just beware, if you decide to break out from the picket-fence brigade you might not get back in

I think you are quite right. Nosy Neighbour needs to get a grip.

Perhaps you and your partner could stage manage a screaming row in the street too. That would really put the wind up him.

rebel - I don't wish to appear stupid but I didn't understand that last sentence. Was with you up to 'to pop'

I'm lost.

You want to be friends with this woman because she had a public row with her partner and smashed up his property in front of her children?

Or you want to be friends with her to annoy your neighbour?

Which is it?

at Ormirian, Squonk and Bigbadmousey.

Ormirian, what do you mean 'stage' a screaming match in the street? All our screaming matches are the real deal!

Actually Ginger, if one of my PLU neighbours had a huge violent row in the street I would pop round and check they were OK. That's a useful sanity check, actually, makes me feel better.

And this lady is really not that scary, I promise.

But you are probably being too subtle - keeping it indoors just won't cut it!

Just remind Mr Neighbour-from-over-the-road that if he gets Mr & Mrs PNLU turfed out then he might end up with Mr & Mrs PEMNLU (People Even More Not Like Us) in the house. That should shut him up.

Reporting a single incident is a bad idea. Everybody can have a bad day. But if the 'incidents' continue then I think that might be a different story and you'd have to think again.

How long have they been council houses? The people trying to sell the house may well have benefited by paying a lower price when they bought it - so if they bought it knowing there were council houses on the street then I have zero sympathy. Caveat emptor etcetera. That is not a reason to report them (and again Mr & Mrs PEMNLU might make the value of the house drop even more )

I wouldn't invite her for tea straight away as she might well think you are being a woolly middle class liberal trying to save her, but I would be friendly and say hello when you see them and stop for a chat and generally be a good neighbour (maybe even have a bitch about Mr Neighbour-from-over-the-road) and then if you do genuinely make friends then invite her for tea and, hell, maybe even organise a street party barbecue thing as well

Chicken,

I'm feeling sympathetic towards this woman because a) she's never been anything but polite and friendly to me, b)she's plainly under quite a bit of stress at the moment and c) my neighbour is (although she doesn't know it) giving her a hard time.

Whether I want to be friends is a different matter. If I get to know her better and if she wants to be friends, I might.

In the meantime, though, I can at least be neighbourly, I think.

Gizmo, if you genuinely feel that you want to get to know her better perhaps you can find a way that she feels she's offering you some help. The way I was brought up makes me very very uncomfortable with accepting any kind of help or support but this would be an acceptable approach.

However, I do feel that you're assuming she's got problems (over an above the norm) she may be perfectly happy living her life like that or at the least she may not see things the way you do. As an example. In my house when I get really cross I shout, my DH doesn't, he gets introspective. Neither of us understands the others approach, the problem may be the same but the understanding of the problem is in the interpretation.

Thanks Holidays, all of that makes sense (and in fact, yes, the 'better the devil you know' argument would probably wash well with Mr Neigbour-from-over-the-road).

I have spoken to this lady to pass the time of day a number of times - she recycled my old fridge for me last year, and our kids occasionally play together, so we're sort of into the good neighbour groove already, luckily.

Well, the thing is Ginger - she does have a problem. If Officious Man complains and she gets moved, that is a problem, no?

But your point about finding a way to be neighbourly where she can help me out is a good one, I think.

Well that might be a problem but that's a problem you could take up with the nosey neighbour not the noisey neighbour doubtful that they'd get moved for one incident though.

Ooooh, just re-read the OP. It was the partner with the baseball bat, not the woman, sorry.

I can actually see your officious neighbour's point of view here. As you keep saying, you didn't see the incident and I'm assuming your neighbour did.

I would be pretty shaken by witnessing an incident like that - I really do think it's his look-out if he wants to complain about it. Certainly don't think you should report them too, although he hasn't actually asked you to do this, has he?

All this talk of class is a bit of a red herring really.

If party X causes a public nuisance/breach of the peace and party Y wants to report it then I don't see that it has a great deal to do with you, or your volvo, herbs or semi-detached victoriana

Good point ChickenBurger. So, to clarify, I was left with the strong impression that Officious Neighbour would not be reporting anything if DH and I had a big row in the street, for example. Which was why I was annoyed with him.

Sigh. In principle you're right. It's not unreasonable that he found this upsetting. This is why I didn't send him out of the house with a flea in his ear. But I don't like what I suspect about his motives, and I don't think he has thought at all about the implications of what he is proposing. Don't forget, he was clearly hinting that I should make a complaint to the council too, which really would be turning this into a witchhunt.

Oh and Mrs PNLU had the baseball bat, sorry if that's not clear.

Still domestic abuse, though, isn't it?

This may or may not be relevant: but a couple of years ago our road had a really depressing-looking squatted house in it. Not an arty-lefty squat, a really beaten-up one. With dogs in it. And horrific looking paintings on the walls.

I got to know the rather nice young woman who lived there; she clearly had quite a few mental health problems, and she was also trying to cope and get on top of them. Occasionally she'd come round and ask for a very small amount of money to buy a specific item of food, and she'd pay me back the next day. DP was very sceptical about my being friends with her - he was absolutely insistent that the kids didn't go into that house - but I didn't see any reason not to.

A few months afterwards I saw her in our road, and she told me that her then partner had been both violent and abusive towards her during that period. I'm really glad I'd been friends and lent her the odd couple of quid.

I can't help but think though, Gizmo, that you are as guilty of making class-based assumptions against your "nosey" neighbour as he is of making them against your "noisy" neighbour.

Given that you didn't witness the incident, personally I would just stay out of it. I realise the neighbour has tried to draw you into it but just be polite and leave him to it.

Fair enough, CB, I guess we're just going to have to agree to differ here.

Gizmo, see now I think you have a point. Stupid but choice of wording makes all the difference.

Yes nosey neighbour has a point and he also seems like an arse but if you live right next to people like that it's probably pretty bloody annoying. No you shouldn't report it, yes in your eyes it's domestic violence but she may not see it that way.

I think you'd be better off saying to nosey neighbour, I'm not reporting anything I wasn't witness too or am not offended by. Continue to be friendly with noisey neighbour and leave it at that. You can always build friendships etc in the future if you genuinely want to once this has blown over but not with an agenda to 'fix' something. You could also speak to nosey neighbour to get a full picture instead of this one off incident and offer them support with how they can live with it / be more tolerant.

Personally I think if she's got a temper like that I'd be more worried about what I didn't see.

If she hasn't done anything wrong then she won't get into trouble, will she?

If she has, well, maybe she'll learn how to behave. I wouldn't want someone like that next door if I was selling my house. Imagine when people turn up for viewings and she's out there smashing up the pick-up truck with a baseball bat.

Have no idea why people on here seem to think it's a great idea to befriend her.

Freddy I suppose its partly because of sense of community and all that?

Why let it all fragment and say it's nothing to do with me and carry on moaning and complaining to third parties?

I think all credit to Gizmo for wanting to build bridges not set them in concrete.

(Waits to get shouted down.)