Are some people just life's victims?

[BusyGreySnail]

I am giving this a lot of thought at the minute. My daughter is being bullied in school (lots of seperate incidents involving different kids) and she was at primary too. I am trying to figure out why it keeps happening and even being really critical of her own behaviour/ contribution to the situations I can't help reach the conclusion that there is something about her that just makes her one of these kids that bullies target (possible neurodivergence so I can see that, objectively, she doesn't read social situations very well, can come across as annoying, and is sensitive so reacts to meanness).

Do you think this exists? That some people just find themselves continually being victims of bullying/ meanness?

I'm sorry your daughter is being bullied; it's a horrible situation for both of you.

Bullies hone in on difference and weakness. They may not realise that's what they're doing, but it's generally how they pick their victims, nonetheless.

Yes, some people do seem to always find themselves the victim in different scenarios. I don't know what the solution is, particularly if not being able to read social situations is down to neurodiversity. I think exposure to different situations teaches you how to deal with them in future, but it can be a long and difficult learning curve.

Autistic children and other children who are different in some way are often bullied, yes.

solutions to this usually come from the school and involve a lot of page work around accepting difference.

where the profile involves violent meltdowns the child is rarely bullied but the other children do sometimes deliberately provoke one.

Sadly yes I do think some people attract meanness because they are perceived as weak and don’t stand up for themselves, or because they give bullies the reaction they are after. But obviously that doesn’t mean that anyone deserves to be bullied. I think you need to be very careful about placing blame on your daughter here, but you could try to teach her strategies to come across as more confident and be less bothered by any teasing.

Kids can pick up on other kids who are ‘different’ (not that there’s a problem with your child, obviously). I was always bullied for not quite fitting in in any faction, it seemed to be worse because I never stuck up for myself because I saw it as me being the bigger person but they took it as weakness and it carried on 🤷🏻‍♀️ I wish I swung them by the hair now.

I'm sorry that your dd is experiencing this, OP.

I do think that it's possible that there is something that she is doing which is contributing to the situation. That is not saying that it's her fault, of course.

Please do get her assessed if you think neurodivergence is likely to be a factor. It may not resolve the issue, but it may at least help you both understand what's going on.

You are right and i am really not trying to place blame on her. But the things i can think of that might help (like showing she's not bothered, even if she is) appear impossible for her to do. She's currently at home becuase some boys have threatend to beat her up in snapchat messages over an argument she had with one of their girlfriends. She's just saying - on repeat - she can't go in because they'll hurt her. The school is obviously engaged and have talked to the boys, but that just resulted in them trying to call her on repeat yesterday. She wants to move schools, which we are exploring, but I am just scared that the next school will be just the same, so we have to figure out a day to change whatever it is that apparently "invites" all these siuations.

I think once you have been a target of bullying and abuse, you are more likely to be victimised by bullies and abusers again. Oftentimes, experiencing such assaults changes the way we carry ourselves, the way we think about ourselves, the way we interact with others, in such a way that future abusers and bullies sense an easy target. It also changes the perceptions of people that know - they may think of you as 'damaged goods', or 'the wrong sort, that attracted the wrong sort of attention'. That's the conclusion I've come to anyway, having agonised over the years about why such things kept happening to me, and what was I doing to attract it. It's a bit shit really.

I reckon something that would help is having someone in your ear staunchly and loudly supporting you, telling you that you weren't the problem, that they were the wrongdoers, and IT'S NOT YOUR FAULT.

Well, this is what i am trying to figure out. She does get in arguments (as they all seem to), and i would say is no worse than anyone else. If anything she will apologise if she feels she's gone to far/ hurt someone's feelings, etc, which the others don't seem to do, but this seems to just be perceived as weakness. I am sure she's not just peacefully walking around being attacked, but equally everything that i can see happening (and we are tracking her messages etc closely due to other incidents) is normal 13 year old behaviour which then time after time ends up in these quite extreme situations.....

I think vulnerability can be detected and it’s extremely hard to put a finger on quite what it is.

It is also very difficult when that kind of pack mentality takes over and a child who actually might be quite nice on their own goes along with what everybody is doing without giving it much thought (think Sue Snell in the opening chapter of Carrie, if anyone knows it.)

Based on this, I would consider reporting this to the police. Threatening to beat her up and then constantly calling her is harassment and she deserves to be protected.

That doesn't mean that there is no point in reflecting whether or not her own responses might be contributing to the behaviour but that's a separate issue.

Being neurodivergent certainly draws bullies' attention. So does lack of self confidence, people pleasing and caring what others think.

If you can teach her to judge them for their bitchiness, cliquiness and cruelty, rather than judging herself, she won't react like a victim so much. Teach her to truly believe that the opinion of vermin who treat others the way they treat her means nothing to her, even if they are popular. If they think she doesn't fit in - good - who wants to fit in with bitchy, cruel cows? She'll say everyone, they are so popular, and you have to explain that just shows what weak sheeple most people are, preferring to side with bitches because they are scared of being targetted themselves.

Encourage her to walk tall, to genuinely think: 'I don't like how you behave, I judge you to be a bad person, so your opinion of me is valueless' about anyone who tries to bring her down. If she is ever threatened physically, escalate it immediately - not just school but police.

And encourage her to develop a friendship group of fellow neurodivergent apparent social outcasts, whether via school or a local ND teens group or a special interest group. These are, ime, the strongest friendship bonds ever. Kind, loyal people who respect each others quirks and interests. There must be a number of ND people in her school year. Ask the HoY or form teacher for advice on who the other picked on children are and ask if they can encourage them to get together socially at lunch times.

If the school has a buddy system, ask them to appoint an older girl or two or three to keep an eye out for her at break and lunchtimes, or when walking home, to ensure she is not picked on.
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Yes I agree with this and it sucks that there’s people, both adults and children, out there that zero in on people who are quiet/ kind/ nervous and think they gave a right to mess up their day/ life/ world. A little lad who moved to our school because of being bullied was bullied in this school too. My ds always said they put him into the worst class and he felt for him. He once told the teachers bullying was something you got used to. Have seen him around town and me or ds have tried to say hi and he just stares ahead. Similarly another lad who left the secondary school was moved there because of bullying and bullied again. Lovely guy but now very nervous of even speaking. So unfair there’s not more people watching (I once reported seeing boys saying mean stuff to him in the car park and was told their word against mine as a teacher hadn’t seen it) and zero tolerance

We've already had to report another child to the police - who threatened to beat her up and then showed up at her school in the morning to carry out the thread (the girl was from another school and had taken issue with someting DD had posted on tiktok (now deleted)). She was physically assulted at school lsat year by a "friend" she had had a "normal" (in my experience of girls) falling out with. Which is what I mean, why do these - really quite extreme - things keep happening to her? having to report seperate13 year olds to the police twice in 3 months?

I just want to cry really.

Honestly, OP, if a group of men threatened to beat you up and then continually harassed you by constantly calling you, wouldn't you go to the police? I know I would.

There are some types of bullying that can be dealt with most appropriately by schools, but there are times when that is not enough.

We should not tolerate criminal behaviour simply because the victims and perpetrators happen to be children.

I would involve the police over those threats from the boys

It’s not just children who pick out those who are considered vulnerable in some way and focus on them for their own benefit.
It is true that some children can be very cruel to others who are different to them in some way

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Call the police again. And tell the school that you're calling them because your dd is not being adequately protected. It doesn't sound like they really have a plan for keeping your dd safe?

And right now, it doesn't really matter why this keeps happening. She deserves to be protected regardless. Yes, there may be learning for her at some point - things that she could do differently. But the bullying is not her fault and now is not the time to reflect on her own behaviour when she is being targeted in this way. The problem needs addressing before you can really get to that.

I'm sorry you're having to deal with this. It sounds very stressful.

There is another thread here ‘bully threatened to stab my son in the heart’ and this mum is being told to call police and move schools and areas.

Would your dd be up for moving schools?

I would also keep dd off social media or only allow her on it with an anonymous account

We are trying but everywhere decent within 15 miles is full. The schools that have spaces are much of the same from what I hear. We are in a grammar area which means the comprehensives are not great. We are on waiting lists and waiting on an appeal for one of them.

People that are different have always been picked on. I know there is more awareness these days but I can’t see it going away anytime soon unfortunately.

I have two friends who both have children diagnosed with autism. Now young adults. They had different approaches. One accepted it and attempted to assist her DD to fit in by gently pointing out why things bothered people. Her DD has graduated, has a long term partner and is doing very well. My other friend made no attempt to ever call out her DS behaviours, he ran rough shod over her. I know each person is different but she clearly just let him do whatever he wanted. He was not doing well last I heard.

@wheredidtheteago I was a very quiet child and racially abused at school. I did stand up to the school bully and asked her face to face why she didn’t like me. She was so flustered that someone dare question her she left me alone after that. I also stood up to a much bigger boy who then proceeded to knock me about. Didn’t tell the teachers or my parents but again I was left alone after. People thought a lot less of him because he hit a girl.

My son was bullied throughout primary and secondary school, when he got college it all stopped and he now had lovely friends and does t get bullied by anyone, ie at work even all senior bosses etc

Sometimes I just wonder if he needed to go through those harsh lessons early on in life, awful as it was

Girls in our area are similar it sounds, also a grammar area. Here if you don't have waist length hair, size 6/8 waist, wear North Face winter jackets and follow the crowd you are a target. Dd is more alternative and point blank refused to go to the girls school for this reason. It is group psychology sadly as they know they are stronger in numbers, but it does stunt their development in my opinion. Weirdly the private girls school I sent DD to has a completely different vibe to the grammar and they are more alternative, friends can like whatever without repercussion and poking fun at others is seen as the height of immaturity. It really is worth thinking about moving if she has just started, or at least help her identify what she likes that goes against the mainstream, so she might find other like-minded "outcasts" if moving is impossible,

Even if there is something about your daughter that means she's more likely to be bullied, I think there's limited value in worrying about it. In the real world we are all different individuals and will find our place -- if your daughter is a moral, hardworking and pleasant individual, that's as much as any parent can hope for.

The issue is that once a social dynamic forms around bullying a particular child, it's very difficult to get out of that dynamic. I wouldn't hesitate to move her. Often it is the social dynamics of that particular group of people causing it moreso than anything about the bullied child.

OP, I can tell you a strategy that worked for one child in our family who was being bullied (he's ND and can come across as a bit 'odd' in some ways). I can't say whether it would work for your daughter.

He called the bullies out on it. Every time they started on him, he chanted in a really annoying, loud voice, "X is is a bully, a nasty nasty bully. Bet his mum's proud of him because he's a nasty bully". And he did this over and over again until it just became embarrassing for the bullies. He also refused to sit next to them in class (which got him into trouble sometimes) and would say things to the teacher like "Y hit me during break and called me names. I shouldn't have to sit next to someone who is violent and disturbed, so you'll have to put me next to someone else". He essentially wouldn't be silenced and made a big deal out of it, and in the end it was just easier to leave him alone.

It would perhaps work less well for a child who was more shy (he's relatively outgoing if quirky and has a strong sense of justice which can cause him to be incredibly bloody minded), but I do truly believe that the most effective thing victims can do to stop bullying is put the spotlight back on the bullies and their behaviour.