to think you shouldn't leave my 3 soon to be 4 year old niece asleep in the house on her own?

[R2G]

My brother in law has to take my sister to her early morning job (7.30am) sometimes 7am. They just told me they leave my niece in bed rather than wake her up. She is 3. He would be out of the house for 15 minutes. Think that is outrageous and said so. Said they could always call me a few minutes before they leave I would drive round and sit there for ten minutes at that she is too young to leave. They didnt really say anything but flounced off. Is that unreasonable to think, and is it unreasonable to have said so?

I read the title and just thought

But I didn't!

I admit that I would also leave my DS1 or 2 in the house alone asleep whilst I nipped to a neighbours for something. I also leave them in the car at the garage. It's a considered risk. By the time DS1 or 2 woke up and checked the whole house and realised I wasn't there, I'd be back. I wouldn't do 15 minutes if I was driving away though. However, in our last house DS1's pre-school was literally across the road from our house (normal housing estate road). At the time he wasn't having regular naps, but now that nap time would have coincided with the pick up time. I'd certainly have left him in the house in his cot and picked up DS1. The bottom of our garden was much further away than the nursery, and hanging out the washing would have taken longer than picking DS1 up. I would still have been in monitor distance. Yes, the McCann case was very very unfortunate, but we shouldn't all go mad because of it. We don't stop driving because of car accidents, or stop our kids playing out because a child gets knocked over in the street.

Twelvelegs, I think if you search threads on Mumsnet about dogs you'll find lots of Mumsnetters are happy to leave their children with even pit bulls, because of course their lovely little pet would never attack anyone, would they?

Open your eyes and look around you. You might not like that this happens, but it does. People nip out to the shop or to pick up other children, leaving younger kids unattended for a time. Usually because they don't have anyone to look after them for a couple of minutes.

I think it says more about this society that we no longer have that sense of community that we can ask someone to keep an eye on our kids. Most people are now so paranoid that paedos lurk round every corner they would rather leave their dc's unattended than have a neighbour round to keep an eye on them. The OP has offered her brother help, but many people don't. I remember starting a thread on her once asking if it would be ok to leave my 7yo dd alone for half an hour after school just whilst I got back from work. In the end I didn't, decided it was too risky. But prior to that I had actually stood outside the school gates asking other mothers if they would look after her for half an hour after school whilst I got back. None of them would. I bet they'd be on here judging me if I had left her though.

And saying the McCanns were ignorant and stupid is not very nice or helpful. When you're in that situation, where everyone is doing it, it's very tempting to fall into their way of thinking. The McCanns could see their apartment door from the restaurant, fwiw. Yes I don't think they should have done it and I wouldn't. But I can understand that you do stupid things when everyone else does. There was a psychological experiment done about this very thing, they persuaded one person to do something really stupid just because everyone else was doing it and it seemed normal for them to do it. It's so easy to fall into that. So rather than condemn, which is the easiest thing in the world to do, why not try to understand and perhaps offer a bit of help? There might be a mum in your neighbourhood who is struggling to find a bit of childcare and you might be able to help.

why keep on about childcare????

Just bloody take them with you fgs!

It's just laziness not to

Do you know it's not easy to do, fall into idiotic and risky patterns of living because everyone else does. I don't particularily want to be nice and helpful to the McCanns they are not friends of mine, I feel sorry for them having lost their daughter but I can't help thinking I wouldn't have done that. My parents always took their jobs as parents quite seriously and make due sacrifice.
As for me and helping other mums, I have three of my own children and another on the way. We frequently have people for tea and are friendly with our neighbours.
There is never a scenario where I would leave my children on their own, I couldn't imagine coming back to a burning house with my children inside like the mother in my home town. I do feel free to condemn those that do take such stupid risks with the lives and well being of their own children it is against the law for a reason.
BTW as for dog attacks I'm pretty sure there aren't that many to call it lots.

FWIW, I didn't say that it didn't happen I just think it shouldn't ever.

cazbody - you can't take them to work with you.

It's not a stupid and idiotic thing to do, it's a calculated risk. Some parents, such as the one who left her 3yo home alone all weekend to go partying, are idiots yes. But those of us who are devoted parents, who would never leave them on a regular basis, but occasionally take a risk - a calculated one. I don't see what business it is of anyone else's.

I wouldn't tell someone to get their dangerous dog put down.

no to leaving children alone

mainly for the reason that if they get up they will be scared

dd1 came down the other night and we were in the dining room instead of slobbed on the sofa in the middle room

she was calling mummy daddy mummmmmeeeeeee until we appeared, was frightened she was on her own and said "I couldn't find you"

now if we had 'popped out' over the road?

no thanks, take them with you or stay in

I have to admit, whenever I have left dd I've told her exactly what I'm doing.

With ds he was asleep in his cot and at that age couldn't get out.

dd knew, if we'd left the baby alarm, to shout in the monitor if she needed us.

In response to OP, that's all good till he gets held up or is involved in an accident and can't get back quickly.

BIL/SIL leave the kids alone when he pickes her up from nights out or whatever. They are 4 and 5.
I also told him I thought it was wrong.

To whoever it was that posted about mothers at the school gate refusing to look after her dd for half an hour till she got back from work,why not use some form of organised childcare? After school club or CM?

That is what most parents do ime. I wouldn't ask another mum to do that on any knid of regular basis.

I can see it would be tempting but why wouldn;t you just take them with you? aren;t most 3/4 year olds awake by 7ish or close to being awake then?

It was twice a week. How can I organise childcare when I work? When the other mothers don't even talk to me?

I really do think that we are turning into a society that spends more of its time judging than it does helping. 50 years ago neighbours knew each other, no-one was judged. They helped each other, no-one struggled on their own. Babysitters were available for nothing, neighbours kids and the like. There were no rules about how old babysitters could be, no police checks either. Kids might be left on their own all day whilst mum went to work, the eldest would sort out meals and the like with help from neighbours and the eldest was only about 10 or so. Ok, it was a harder life back then, mothers had no choice but to go to work, they didn't do it for self-esteem purposes. But back then there really was that community, people would get involved. Now we seem happy to just stand back and judge.

Rhubarb, what is the calculated risk when children are involved? How can anything be calculated into some sort of formula when an inconvenience outweighs a child's safety. The woman who popped to her neighbours didn't think her three year old could work the oven, leave the gas on, fall down the stairs etc.

Not read the replies but I wouldn't do it

Imagine how awful it would be if you were 3 and you woke up in an empty house
You would feel abandoned and awful

Plus the safety risks obv

My mum left myself & sis home alone, aged about 4 and 6
She came home to a house on fire.
This was in the 70's

no Rhubarb of couse you can't but surely that is something you would take into account when getting a job/ having a baby (whichever comes first)

talk about priorities fgs!

Oh of course cazbody, because we all plan our lives in such a particular way of course!

I cannot believe the amount of judging on this thread. Are you all saying that none of you would step in to help someone in that situation? That you'd all be happier pointing the finger?

Yes tradgedies happen. My dd could get knocked over crossing the road in front of our house to get to school, but I still let her do it. They could get blown to smithereens in the car whilst I'm paying for petrol. They could get out of their beds and feel frightened and alone because I'm in the back garden having a beer.

But when it's a one-off, I've done it and others have done it. I'm not going to justify that, I shouldn't have to. Some of you probably leave your electrical appliances plugged in all night therefore increasing the risk of a house fire, some of you might not have checked your smoke alarms. I'm not in a position to judge any of you, therefore you are not in any position to judge anyone else either.

Next time you hear of this happening, why not get off your soapbox and ask the mother involved if you can do anything to help.

I would help out other mums, of course

but I would rather sort out proper childcare so that I wouldn't have to depend on the generosity of other mums all the time, just for my own peace of mind

re leaving children at home ill/aslepp, like the other week, I had arranged a playdate for dd2, typically dd1 came down with puking bug

phoned mum, told her it was still ok (she was working so really needed me to have her dd)

I took dd1 in the car WITH A BOWL on the drop off and pick up to playgroup for dd2 AND to take other mums dd back again

wrapped in blanket, puking in the front seat with a bowl

she wasn't happy but no way was she being left home alone

you gotta take to them smehow without upsetting them,

if they said it very matter of fact to yourself.

who knows who else they may have mentionned it to.

you wont report them as you are their sister. however someone else will.

how do you know one of her neighbours hasn't seen whats going on, they may already be recording when and how often this is happening? if there's proof this is a regular thing then the police could take action.

as far as i was aware it is illegal to leave a child of 3 alone for any length of time AT ALL

maybe i'm wrong?

I would definitely help someone if I knew they were struggling,

but I wouldn't expect anybody to help me with my children...... they are my responsibility.

Hi it's the OP. Just wanted to add that it doesnt appear to be every day having spoke to them more but not an isolated incident.

As for offering to help etc... I have offered but I am actually reluctant to leave my own family to drive round there at 7 every morning. She should have thought about it before taking the job which she didnt and then expects everyone to bail her out with childcare (it is a two hour cleaning job). I appreciate with the age of the child that it is hard to get work because niece in school just afternoons at mo so it will change in September. My offer of help got a sulky why didnt you offer before then and we wouldn't have left her. As I say my response was people usually delegate childcare for a regular commitment like a job before taking the job. She gave up £65 Job seekers for half that amount because of her work ethic and pride. Well I think she should be ashamed of where she has put her daughter in that priority list.

Found out also that when she used to work in a bar at night when she couldn't get a tazi same thing happened at opposite end of the day....leaving the child at 2 in the morning to go and pick her up.

Anyway she leaves on Friday so there is not much more to say. Thanks for all the support. Rhubarb- there is excuse for leaving a child unprotected on their own. Not preaching this discussion has really made me think about some things I do like I said goign to the shop and leaving kids in the car and leaving them playing in the garden whilst cleaning upstairs. I wont be doing it again it is wrong.

r2g when i read your original post my immediate thought was the statistic i heard at the firstaid course for parents that i attended, that it takes at little as 4 minutes for a fire to start and build up enough heat and smoke to kill someone in the house on a different floor. So if a fire started in say, the kitchen, your niece could be in serious danger in her bed a long time before he got back from the run.

I think they said that here (scotland) it is illegal to leave a child alone until they are 12! so leaving her alone at 3-4 is just ridiculous and criminal. Poor wee pet if she did wake up alone and scared!

i don't think people should be sared to take small risks with their children. I can even see why someone might leave a child unattended for five minutes to pop to the shops. But for anything more than that is ridiculous.
The McCanns were being selfish. They didn'y pop out urgently for medicine, they were out for an entire meal! in a resort that had childcare facilities which they chose not to use. When you area parent your responsibility for your child's safety omes first. My parents used to takeus with them if they had to go somewhere even if it meant arrying us to the car in our sleep.

The only thing I've ever done is pop out to move the car into a better parking space outside the house if it was previously a few spaces down. I still had an uncomfortable feeling about doing that!