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To think Mumsnet is xenophobic

214 replies

sittight · 01/11/2026 22:05

When it comes to Americans?

If it was about any other nation it would be called out as the racism is it.

I’ve seen it today across the Halloween threads - people looking down their nose at Halloween because it’s an ‘American import’ (which it isn’t).

The attitude that baby showers are disdainful because they’re American. The snobbery about proms because they’re American. Elf on the Shelf, gender reveal parties etc. - fair enough if you just don’t like them but there are always derisive posts about them being American.

I suspect the same people embrace traditions imported from other cultures but when it comes to American traditions there is such snobbery.

OP posts:
feellikeanalien · 02/11/2026 10:10

Monty36 · 02/11/2026 08:47

I think you have to divorce the idea that people hate all Americans because they dislike some aspects of America.
There are an awful lot of American people. Disliking them because they are would be extreme.

But America is not in anyone’s good books as a country presently. They have voted in a leader who has caused no end of strife for the world. And for their own citizens.
The Halloween thing, is simply true. It was an American commercial import. I know people in Scotland will say otherwise. But the way it is celebrated bears no resemblance and all started up here in the 80’s. Not that long ago. In the 80’s there was a sort of awe that some in the UK had with all things American.

So no would be my answer. Do not confuse people complaining about a country and how it represents itself with people disliking all the people in it.

Slightly off topic but was there no English equivalent of guising until the 80s?

I grew up in the 60s/70s in Scotland and was guising from a very young age.
Was Halloween not celebrated in England at all?

dandelionfluffy · 02/11/2026 10:50

feellikeanalien · 02/11/2026 10:10

Slightly off topic but was there no English equivalent of guising until the 80s?

I grew up in the 60s/70s in Scotland and was guising from a very young age.
Was Halloween not celebrated in England at all?

We had a costume party but no guising/trick or treating. We used to duck for apples in water or flour, have worm soup (cold spaghetti), eyeballs (peeled grapes) and other such bush tucker trials. This was 70s/80s England.

Mumtoabillion · 02/11/2026 10:54

@Twiglets1 yes you're right. It is a form of xenophobia.

Monty36 · 02/11/2026 11:21

feellikeanalien · 02/11/2026 10:10

Slightly off topic but was there no English equivalent of guising until the 80s?

I grew up in the 60s/70s in Scotland and was guising from a very young age.
Was Halloween not celebrated in England at all?

Not that I recall no. It was bonfire night.

BeanNaGealai · 02/11/2026 11:26

Procrastination4 · 02/11/2026 09:39

“Not walking”? My daughter-in-law (from California now living in Canada) walks EVERYWHERE! Her parents, still living in California, go on regular long walks, and other friends of ours do regular morning walks too. Perhaps it’s more to do with location/temperature/lack of footpaths or something else?
Another poster referred to “Santa”. We use “Santa Claus” or “Santa” (in Ireland) and the Irish name for him is San Nioclás which would translate to “St.Nioclas” and that would link up with the poster who wrote about the possible link between the “Sinterklass” of the Dutch settlers in America and modern “Santa (Claus)”. I have never heard him referred to as “Father Christmas” by anyone here. Must be an “English” or perhaps UK thing. 😉

It was Santy when I was growing up in Ireland. I don't know when he changed to Santy.

Smokeywater · 02/11/2026 11:28

I think the not walking is partly due to no public transport - you drive everywhere - partly because everything is spread wide - nice big houses, nice big driveways, nice wide roads and streets - so distances are very big. But also due to climate.

Skippythemagnificent · 02/11/2026 12:03

napody · 02/11/2026 09:24

We have Sunday trading hours in Wales. You could just as easily argue that posters in Scotland forget Wales exists and just see it as part of England...

Yes, you have Sunday trading hours but I’ve never seen someone from Wales say “this is what the UK has” because people in wales seem to understand that wales, England, Scotland and Northern Ireland have different things going on. The only people I ever see saying “but the UK has….” in response to something are the English.

When I posted about being in a shop on Sunday evening, it was an English person who went after me for being a troll. In my (limited and stereotypical) experience, the Welsh wouldn’t do that so I’m not going to lump the Welsh in with my complaints about this being an English centric forum.

EstoyRobandoSuCasa · 02/11/2026 12:16

Stinkybooks · 02/11/2026 00:47

I think most of us would agree that baby showers, gender reveals, elf on the shelf etc are not an improvement. Just yet another “thing” from the US.
And yes obviously Halloween didn’t start out in the US but its current form is most certainly a US thing. Ditto much of the commercialisation of Christmas.
How about Xmas boxes, family pajamas and OTT Christmas lights (lighting up the night sky so much is awful for wildlife - bats, owls etc)
So much tat, a lot of which I’m guessing ends up in land fill every January.

I agree. Someone calculated that if everyone had the carbon footprint of the average American, we would need the resources of five Earths to sustain us all.

I think we need to be more mindful of lifestyle creep and not just buy in to the latest commercial trends because they are there.

Kstrang · 02/11/2026 12:19

Is it xenophobic to want to keep your own culture?

Soontobe60 · 02/11/2026 12:20

Skippythemagnificent · 02/11/2026 12:03

Yes, you have Sunday trading hours but I’ve never seen someone from Wales say “this is what the UK has” because people in wales seem to understand that wales, England, Scotland and Northern Ireland have different things going on. The only people I ever see saying “but the UK has….” in response to something are the English.

When I posted about being in a shop on Sunday evening, it was an English person who went after me for being a troll. In my (limited and stereotypical) experience, the Welsh wouldn’t do that so I’m not going to lump the Welsh in with my complaints about this being an English centric forum.

Now you seem to be making things up. The person on that thread who commented did not say where they were from, you have just assumed they were English.
Considering the fact that they have Sunday trading hours in England, Wales and NI, you used your biases to assume because they made a comment yiu didn’t like they must be English, and now you’re compounding that by once again using your biases to claim that Welsh people wouldn’t possibly do that.
Can you not see the contradiction?

Skippythemagnificent · 02/11/2026 12:23

Soontobe60 · 02/11/2026 12:20

Now you seem to be making things up. The person on that thread who commented did not say where they were from, you have just assumed they were English.
Considering the fact that they have Sunday trading hours in England, Wales and NI, you used your biases to assume because they made a comment yiu didn’t like they must be English, and now you’re compounding that by once again using your biases to claim that Welsh people wouldn’t possibly do that.
Can you not see the contradiction?

They don’t need to say they were English. It’s only ever the English who think the whole of the UK follows their rules. The Welsh and Irish just don’t seem to do that.

They have that reputation because of the xenophobia shown by the English every day on this site. So now we all roll our eyes at them. If they are Welsh or Irish then I’d be very surprised. Not at all surprised if they’re English.

Livelovebehappy · 02/11/2026 12:24

Trust me, theres a lot of dislike on mn about other so called 'customs' imported by other cultures. But people cant always comment freely on that. Or the posts have to be carefully worded. I would say any Americans who are offended by anything on here should just report to MN regulators, and the posts would (should!) be given the same considerstion. Same with a lot of stuff on here. For example ageism on here is certainly not given the same importance as other 'isms'. If people think they can get away with it, they will run with it.

Crushed23 · 02/11/2026 12:28

EvieBB · 02/11/2026 03:30

It's difficult unless you're rich and can afford organic
Also the food laws are way less strict than EU laws so you're eating chlorinated chickens and food that has way more crazy additives compared to the equivalent version in Europe

Am I now? 😂😂😂

GoodGirlFaith · 02/11/2026 12:30

When I was in my teens and late 20's, America was the place to go. New York, Disney, Los Angeles. America was glamourous. Some of my family emigrated in the early 1980's and are still there.

I think unfortunately America's image isn't what it was. A friend has recently booked a weekend to New York and I commented on that being far less commonplace than it once was. I love New York.

I visited a local historic site last week (somewhere popular with North Americans) and I heard the volunteer guide ask where they were from. The visitors replied 'Connecticut, and don't worry, we didn't vote for him.' And therein, I believe lies the problem. I sincerely hope a new president will, actually, make America great again.

(I realise I have gone slightly off your topic about Hallowe'en, OP).

JudgeJ · 02/11/2026 12:38

Kstrang · 02/11/2026 12:19

Is it xenophobic to want to keep your own culture?

Only if you're British, especially English!

MeshMesh · 02/11/2026 12:44

Since British power went into decline there have been anxieties about growing American influence in Britain (and elsewhere in Europe for that matter). Often these take the form of concerns around the perceived import of an ever increasingly crass commercialism and invented traditions that have more to do with marketing than any deeper roots.

It’s not xenophobic per se to take issue with these things.

As for Halloween, for anyone over, say, 50, it was never a big thing in Britain growing up. You got the odd trick or treater who was typically regarded as a pest, and might see a few youngsters with a half-arsed costume on in a pub. Celebrating Halloween was often dismissed as an “American thing” and, as such, seen as lacking authenticity. Bonfire Night was a much bigger occasion, although sadly it seems to have been in decline for years.

American cultural imperialism is real, and while the country exports some great cultural product, not everyone, rightly, is happy just accepting all aspects of it. They see it sometimes as just another money making exercise, or a ritual that seems unnecessary, or a lesser version of what we already have which the import then crowds out. You may not agree, but I wouldn’t call it xenophobic. In many cases it’s entirely reasonable.

Also, as others have pointed out, perception of America waxes and wanes in Britain elsewhere. We’ve had years now of the idiocy of Trump, police violence, ICE, the Iran conflict, fools like RFK, peddlers of damaging social media, Musk egging on fascists here in the UK and so on. I’m sure most Brits know this isn’t all Americans, but it does influence perception. When the Trumpian tide eventually turns opinions will too.

5128gap · 02/11/2026 12:46

I think its mainly because the traditions that have found their way here tend to take something simple and make it elaborate and labour intensive (Halloween) or introduce a new lot of faffery where formerly there was none (baby showers).
In the UK we have a long history, a diverse population and a lot of traditions already, so there's resentment at yet more. For example, we already had Bonfire night on 5th November, now we've also got the big expectation around Halloween a few days earlier.
I know the answer is no one forces you to join in, but given how exposed we are to US culture through TV, films etc, expectations in children are raised and people can feel pressured.

HisStericalTestes · 02/11/2026 12:50

Agree, Americanisation often turns something simple and moralistic into a wasteful consumerist farce or race for dominance.

Goldenbear · 02/11/2026 12:51

MyManinCaracas · 01/11/2026 22:24

You’re crackers. No one cares about any of that.

I think if you are American this is precisely an example of what the issue is- telling those with different cultures that their culture is irrelevant!

Crushed23 · 02/11/2026 12:52

GoodGirlFaith · 02/11/2026 12:30

When I was in my teens and late 20's, America was the place to go. New York, Disney, Los Angeles. America was glamourous. Some of my family emigrated in the early 1980's and are still there.

I think unfortunately America's image isn't what it was. A friend has recently booked a weekend to New York and I commented on that being far less commonplace than it once was. I love New York.

I visited a local historic site last week (somewhere popular with North Americans) and I heard the volunteer guide ask where they were from. The visitors replied 'Connecticut, and don't worry, we didn't vote for him.' And therein, I believe lies the problem. I sincerely hope a new president will, actually, make America great again.

(I realise I have gone slightly off your topic about Hallowe'en, OP).

Trips to New York are less commonplace than when? The 1980s? Granted I wasn’t alive in the 1980s, but I live here now and you can’t move for tourists. It’s hard to imagine that there were more tourists in the 1980s and 1990s. Happy to be corrected though.

Agree with the rest of your comment though - America seemed more glamorous and exciting when I was a kid. I remember watching SATC as a teenager and thinking I have to live there one day!

Goldenbear · 02/11/2026 12:56

Smokeywater · 02/11/2026 09:32

I think people are envious of the USA - it has everything - so much oil, so much gas, so much tech, so rich - I mean their tech runs the world - true they have bad gun laws (but you get politer behaviour - no one will go around with blaring music if the person in the next car has a gun in their glove pocket) and a mad President but he stopped immigration - I find it amazing - immigration ran at millions a year - people wanted it controlled and he did it - somehow our Gov thinks it's ok to go against what the majority of the country want and allow anyone into the country.

But the funny thing is it's a huge country and it does not give a shiny shit what bleating moaning Brits say (except Trump likes the King) - Biden wouldn't even come here he just went to Ireland. I doubt most of them could put the UK on a world map any more than you could put Kansas on a USA Map.

We can keep whining and they will keep being unaware.

Yes because the British are not known for their politeness at all are they. Completely deluded.

Skippythemagnificent · 02/11/2026 13:01

MeshMesh · 02/11/2026 12:44

Since British power went into decline there have been anxieties about growing American influence in Britain (and elsewhere in Europe for that matter). Often these take the form of concerns around the perceived import of an ever increasingly crass commercialism and invented traditions that have more to do with marketing than any deeper roots.

It’s not xenophobic per se to take issue with these things.

As for Halloween, for anyone over, say, 50, it was never a big thing in Britain growing up. You got the odd trick or treater who was typically regarded as a pest, and might see a few youngsters with a half-arsed costume on in a pub. Celebrating Halloween was often dismissed as an “American thing” and, as such, seen as lacking authenticity. Bonfire Night was a much bigger occasion, although sadly it seems to have been in decline for years.

American cultural imperialism is real, and while the country exports some great cultural product, not everyone, rightly, is happy just accepting all aspects of it. They see it sometimes as just another money making exercise, or a ritual that seems unnecessary, or a lesser version of what we already have which the import then crowds out. You may not agree, but I wouldn’t call it xenophobic. In many cases it’s entirely reasonable.

Also, as others have pointed out, perception of America waxes and wanes in Britain elsewhere. We’ve had years now of the idiocy of Trump, police violence, ICE, the Iran conflict, fools like RFK, peddlers of damaging social media, Musk egging on fascists here in the UK and so on. I’m sure most Brits know this isn’t all Americans, but it does influence perception. When the Trumpian tide eventually turns opinions will too.

Edited

This is exactly what we mean about English xenophobia.

Halloween wasn’t a thing IN ENGLAND. It very much was in Ireland and Scotland because we invented it.

Every year in mumsnet, the English start whinging about Halloween and Scottish and Irish people are going blue in the face telling you over and over again that when you said “wasn’t a thing in Britain” you mean “wasn’t a thing in England”

Do you understand that England is not the only country in Britain?

GoodGirlFaith · 02/11/2026 13:05

Crushed23 · 02/11/2026 12:52

Trips to New York are less commonplace than when? The 1980s? Granted I wasn’t alive in the 1980s, but I live here now and you can’t move for tourists. It’s hard to imagine that there were more tourists in the 1980s and 1990s. Happy to be corrected though.

Agree with the rest of your comment though - America seemed more glamorous and exciting when I was a kid. I remember watching SATC as a teenager and thinking I have to live there one day!

Oh, I don't have the statistics and maybe I'm compleley wrong (and hope I am!). It had just been a long time since I heard that someone was going to America. Most people I know who travel now tend to go to Australia, Thailand, Japan etc.. and I was surprised.

BeanNaGealai · 02/11/2026 13:13

Skippythemagnificent · 02/11/2026 12:23

They don’t need to say they were English. It’s only ever the English who think the whole of the UK follows their rules. The Welsh and Irish just don’t seem to do that.

They have that reputation because of the xenophobia shown by the English every day on this site. So now we all roll our eyes at them. If they are Welsh or Irish then I’d be very surprised. Not at all surprised if they’re English.

I assume you mean Northern Irish rather than Irish? Not all Northern Irish people are Irish and the majority of Irish people are from Ireland rather than from the UK.

EvieBB · 02/11/2026 13:22

Crushed23 · 02/11/2026 12:28

Am I now? 😂😂😂

why the laughing emoji?
It's well known that US food standards are nowhere near as good as EU laws...which is why I was upset we left Europe!
It's even affecting our chocolate! Cadbury's cocoa content is gradually being reduced year or year as it's been taken over by a US firm...basically the quality is getting shitter each year - they're doing it slowly so that our palate gets used to it and we don't notice 😬