It’s all very well people having boundaries but eventually someone has to do the work that needs doing??

[CuteCactus]

I’m experiencing this in both my private and professional life, and quite honestly I’m exhausted!

We’re all encouraged to put boundaries in place as to what we are or are not willing to do or put up with, but eventually, when jobs have to be done in a certain time frame, someone has to do it. And in my life, that’s me! Well done to my partner and staff for sticking firm to their boundaries I guess!

YABU - everyone is allowed boundaries and these should be respected.

YANBU - (some) boundaries are just people not caring how their actions affect someone else

I get it OP

Lots of parents use sports clubs /kids activities ran by volunteers (think scouts, grass roots football etc) and refuse to help as they are busy, even on a rota basis …. and then complain loudly if there is a waiting list or little Johnny doesn’t get as much match time as the coaches son/daughter …..

I do wonder when the current 50/60 + year old volunteers stop volunteering what the next generation of parents will do - pay more for activities with paid professional leaders or simply don’t have their children doing activities. I’m pretty certain there will be a number of people outraged that other people will no longer voluntarily give up their time for them, so their children can do supported activities like they did when they were younger. The ‘I don’t work for free brigade can’t have it both ways.

Well, the other side of boundaries is that if you believe someone is crossing them out of lack of respect or laziness, you don’t have to accept it by staying with them.

If your professional boundaries stop you from doing your job then it's not the job for you and you should either leave or be dismissed.

Over the last 8 years I’ve been helping my elderly parents. My mum now has advanced dementia and what started off as just helping out here and there turned into an almost full time job especially as my elderly father fell to pieces. I was constantly told to set boundaries, walk away etc but that’s so much easier said than done.

I wish I'd been that person to put boundaries in place at work (always been a people-pleaser but doing better in my personal life now). Currently signed off after being expected to do two full-time complex roles by myself for the past few months. Tried so many times to push back but without any luck and ended up just being a pushover instead of standing my ground. Yet have seen one of my colleagues (via teams) say she cannot possibly pick up any of my work as she is already overloaded - doing half of what I've been doing...

@CuteCactus We’re all encouraged to put boundaries in place as to what we are or are not willing to do or put up with, but eventually, when jobs have to be done in a certain time frame, someone has to do it. And in my life, that’s me! Well done to my partner and staff for sticking firm to their boundaries I guess!

Having staff means that you're a manager, and managers generally receive some kind of performance-related pay or performance-related bonus. That means there's a financial incentive for you to ensure that the work is completely correctly and on time.

Your staff likely don't receive a similar bonus. They are on a fixed salary, and don't receive extra pay for working above their contracted hours.

By expecting your staff to do additional work, what you're really saying is that you want staff do extra UNPAID work, giving up their own time, so that YOU can financially profit from this as the manager when you receive your performance-related bonus.

This is grossly unethical and I am not sure how you don't understand this.

If you want staff to do more work above their contracted hours, then you should be providing paid overtime shifts to facilitate this.

I agree with this but in virtually every type of organisation I have encountered during my sixty odd years on earth, whether it’s a corporation, a charity, or a family, there are the do-ers and the piss-takers, and the latter usually are more numerous than the former.

I don't disagree that some "boundaries" can be unreasonable (I'm pretty sure some people at my work think being expected to do more than 2 tasks a day is unreasonable, but they are paid for 37 hours a week...) but I don't think it's right to frame it in terms of whether or not things need doing.

E.g. if you're regularly working longer hours at work "because things need doing" then getting annoyed at colleagues who hold a boundary of working their contracted hours, they are not being unreasonable - the answer may be that your employer is not employing enough people to do the job and your colleagues are very reasonably refusing to do it for free, just so the company can make more profit for shareholders...

You mention your partner...at home, things do need to get done to some extent. If say he refuses to parent after 7pm, that's unreasonable. If you have very high standards for tidying/cleaning and he's setting a boundary that he won't spend all evening doing stuff to that standard, I'd say hes not unreasonable.

I intend to hold a boundary on my DMs future care needs. Quite simply, I don't want to give up time with my own family and would rather she pays for carers. Some may say that's wrong, but I can't be forced to do it and I won't be.

Can you give some examples of what you consider to be reasonable and unreasonable boundaries?

Laziness cannot be called "boundaries". If something is your job, get it done. If you don't have enough staff to cover the work that needs doing, hire them. It's not up to your current staff to work longer hours to make up for your mismanagement.

Totally agree.

Im Spending 8 hours tomorrow
helping a local sports club hold a competition because their parents haven’t come forward to volunteer despite repeated requests.

These children are 8-12yo and the future of the club.

My own ds is now an adult at the club and so are many of the people like me who volunteers - or their late teens and heading to uni soon.

It’s catch 22. We help because we see what the kids get from the club. We help because we don’t want to see the kids miss out. We help because we know the club functions because of money that comps being in. We help because we know when ours qualify for British champs and coaches go along the money raised goes towards those costs.

But what happens when ours leave?

At some point people are going to have to step up - but they won’t all the time those of us who won’t see the kids or club miss out - will step up

I think you are projecting here. At my work everyone is judged on their performance and receives a bonus (or not) regardless of grade.

I was doing extra. I had zero boundaries.

Years of conditioning from childhood made me a people pleaser (fawn element of the fight/flight/fear response).

I had a stress related health scare. A really fucking scary stress - related health scare. And I was in hospital for a week and off work for 2 months.

And the stress - both and work and home were from not having boundaries.

5 months into counselling for my recent events and childhood trauma I am putting boundaries in place. It is very scary. Especially when faced with passive aggressive comments from colleagues who no longer think I am "pulling my weight for the team".

Do you know what? Work and home continued without me whilst I was ill.
If I cannot do what is "expected" off me within reasonable boundaries - then it is the expectations that need to change. Not the boundary.

I am really fearful of boundaries.

Death is worse though.

@CuteCactus if other people having boundaries is causing you "extra" then consider your own boundaries. Start having some maybe?

Most companies obviously don't give performance-related pay rises for staff on average salaries, otherwise you would have all staff working 50 hour weeks and putting in lots of extra time to secure pay rises that the company can't afford. The only exception would be staff who perform particularly poorly, who might be denied the standard pay rise as a consequence.

Bonuses for average staff are not performance-related. It tends to be a case of, if the company hits its targets, then the staff get a small standard bonus. Performance-related pay rises and bonuses are reserved for senior staff specifically.

If we’re talking about jobs then there is the job description which was agreed when offered the job and payment and hours. If not possible to fulfil role then it’s a matter for HR/boss to be negotiated. It’s not boundaries.
Boundaries are when colleagues don’t fulfil their job role and expect others to do them, again a matter for HR.
I would set boundaries over the way I was treated in the workplace eg not accept being shouted/sworn at, treated differently from others, etc. again an HR matter.

I understand the point about the challenge enforcing boundaries at work.

I routinely work at weekends and when I’m on holiday. Its shit and its a result of poor management and I absolutely should enforce my boundaries here.

But the outcome of me enforcing boundaries would invariably mean either that junior staff got left in the shit as other senior staff wont do anything or I would get in trouble with management.

Its impossible to enforce boundaries without getting yourself into a disciplinary.

To give a random recent example my boss emailed me at 10.30pm last night (a Saturday), to ask me to send her a document. Any reasonable person would have realised a) that no document needs sending at pub closing time on Halloween and b) that it is an unreasonable incursion into my personal life.

But if I were to have imposed said boundary I would have been hauled into her office first thing tomorrow and told that as a senior team member I need to be available at all times.

Its shit but I have no power to do anything about it.

Sometimes boundaries are a luxury.

You really have made a rod for your own back. So time to fix this, it’s Monday. You speak to the manager, you managed to pick this up on Saturday night and sort it, but you aren’t paid for weekends and this has been a wake up call for you. From now on, you will check work emails once on a Saturday morning and once on a Sunday morning. Beyond that it’ll have to wait until Monday or in the case of an actual emergency, they need to call you, not email.

Your boss needs to plan better and you can’t be expected to be available 24/7. Your next holiday, say you won’t be checking work emails until the night before you return, they need to phone you if it’s an emergency but accept you’ll have limited access to work computer.

it’s important you push back. Generally it’s not actually an emergency, it’s just covering up someone else’s incompetence and letting them fail then being let go will make your life better. Propping them up so they don’t fail just keeps their life good and your life shit. It’s ok to be a bitch and allow useless people to be fired.

Just dont do it. And when something happens just tell work/ your partner that you said you would not be doing it so they accept the consequences

This is such a great description of what boundaries actually ARE. Too many people think that their boundaries are things other people must do. That's not the case at all. A boundary is something I will/will not do or will/will not accept from others, with a corresponding action from me. But, crucially, if other people don't like those boundaries, they can choose not to engage with me and if other people attempt to force me to do them, I will walk away.

The cat dog one is a great example - you're not saying they can't have a cat, but you are saying you won't be dealing with it. They can then choose what to do with that info.

In my case, I will not accept sexist or racist language or jokes. At all. I have zero sense of humour when it comes to this sort of thing. I accept that this boundary means a lot of people think that I am, at best, "a crazy feminist" or, at worst, a sad/no humoured person who shouldn't be invited out. I accept that. I dont' expect them to change their behaviour, and accept that my unwillingness to laugh at a "silly" sexist joke means I might limit my social ife. That works for me as I'd rather have no social life than hang out with people who say things I find stupid.