Should I tell DC more about the divorce?

[permanenttrain]

Name changed for this - apologies for any grammar issues as I’m on my phone.

Ex-H and I split 2 years ago, divorce was finalised 4 months ago. We have 3 DC - DS13, DD11 and DS6. We split because I found out that H was cheating, he has since moved in with OW and they are now engaged.

The split itself was fairly amicable, no fighting in front of the children etc. We had one massive argument when I found out and that was it. We co-parent fairly well together, although I do the vast majority of the childcare/arrangements. He essentially has them for one night every other week and does not pay any maintenance, nor have I asked for any.

Financially I am the much higher earner and the house was mine pre-marriage due to an inheritance. Ex is a teacher and works term-time only, but only has to support himself and OW - plus the kids one night EOW.

The issue is this - over the last few months DS13 has been making increasingly nasty little comments to me and I’m sure that they must have been said to him by Ex or OW. The nanny has also reported that when I am away for work (a couple of nights a month) he also makes comments about me and my “commitment to my children”.

Examples:

1. I recently told DS that he couldn’t have another pair of trainers as they were too expensive and he didn’t need them, but that if he really wanted them he could put them on his Christmas list (trying to teach him the value of money). His response was to have a tantrum and question where the money his Dad pays me is going?! He doesn’t pay me a penny! Nor does he pay for any of their extra-curricular activities or trips or even bloody pocket money!
2. When I came back from a work trip recently he questioned who I’d been with and asked if I had really been away for work or just off having a nice time away from them.
3. I bought a black tie dress to go to work event recently and he apparently told the nanny that evening that I was wasting all the money I’d “won” in the divorce. It was always my bloody money!

His behaviour is now starting to filter down to DD and I think this needs nipping in the bud. I think he’s old enough for me to sit him down and tell him a bit more about the divorce and our split (in a sanitised way) and maybe answer some questions that he might have.

I want to say:

1. I gave his Dad a bit of money in the divorce - he did not give me any money or pay anything towards the house.
2. We always kept our finances separate and kept a joint account for joint expenses, I do not owe his Dad any money. I don’t think it’s appropriate to tell him that his Dad actually emptied that account when he left.
3. His Dad does not pay any money towards them. Anything they have had over the last 2 years has been solely provided by me. I have not asked him for a contribution and he has not offered one.
4. I offered their Dad 50:50 custody but he refused it unless I paid for an additional full time nanny until the youngest is 13. I refused and he immediately said he was happy with his one night.

I understand that it has been difficult for him with having a Dad who was around a lot until a couple of years ago, but I don’t think I should have to be the villain here. Thoughts?

You say he's a teacher? To me, that makes it worse he's acting like this and wouldn't discuss the schools with you (unless you're also involved in eduation, but the way you describe your job, you aren't).
So be honest with the kids. I'd maybe speak to him first, to find out where your child got this info.

I'd gently tell him everything including the affair.

I would tell him everything, he's old enough to know. I know this isn't the point but as a side observation I would make is about maintenance - I know you are a higher earner and haven't asked for it etc but if he did pay maintenance and you didn't want to use it you could always just put it away for things like university fees or a car for your children. It's surprising how it adds up over time. Even on minimum wage it's £400 a month, which by the time youngest is 18 is about £50k.

I would be spelling it all out.
Absolutely no way would I allow his lies and bullshit to fly.
Every single bit of it.
I also wouldn't accept any child of mine taking that tone with me.
I definitely would be suggesting that he speak to his father about spending more time there.

Your Ex thinks you are a soft touch.
I would blow this up for him.
How dare he.
Your relationship is being damaged by these lies.
No way they shouldn't be firmly rebuffed.

You dont have to stoop to a lower level even if you suspect (you don’t know) he is.

a mother (or father) that would tell you 13yo that their other parent they see regularly didn’t want them is a horrible human in my view.

dont do it.

You sound so balanced, calm and understanding. Your children are lucky to have you. Definitely explain your side of events in an age appropriate way, pick an opportune moment, but leave out number 4. Your idea of rugby tickets for ds and your dad is spot on. Keep up the good work your ds will realise what a good parent you are when he's older. He'll probably have a relationship of sorts with your ex, it won't be anywhere near as close as the one he will have with you.

I would tell DS 13 1-3 but not 4. If he is old enough to have misconstrued ideas you need to set him straight.

Did you speak to him @permanenttrain? I’d definitely cla maintenance though. Why won’t he have them more in the school holidays ?

If he's old enough to make snide remarks, he's old enough to be told the truth about the finances in your marriage. Sit him down, like an adult, and talk him through the facts. Don't sugar coat it.

Evening Everyone,

I had a lovely day with DS, we cleared the air in a very calm and productive manner.

The short version is that DS is feeling very pushed out by both his Dad and OW.

He is apparently a lot more aware of the discussion about custody that we had during our divorce planning as he has apparently been on his Dad’s iPad and read through some of the emails and our texts. Obviously the snooping is not great behaviour and we have had words about it, but I understand the curiosity and that he found it difficult to come to either of us to talk about it. I think largely because it confirmed that his Dad has willingly checked out of fatherhood.

OW is apparently extremely fond of DS6 and DS13 is unhappy because he’s worried that DS6 will be upset when she is no longer interested in him when she starts having babies herself. DS is also upset because OW told him that she and Ex are trying to have a baby and he is nervous that it will mean his Dad has no time for him and that he might have to watch his Dad being a better parent to another baby.

DS has also been texting his Dad recently (I don’t check the texts between them), asking if they can do things together while they are both off on half term. Ex has apparently not been that responsive and has just told him that he’ll see him next weekend as usual, which will mean he hasn’t seen him at all over half term. Obviously this has upset DS and he’s feeling very rejected. I’m not sure why Ex can’t take at least 2 hours out of a two week holiday to spend some 1:1 time with his son. I’m going to have a word with him to see what his excuse is, but I’m not going to cover up for him either.

Strangely OW seems to be under the impression, according to DS, that the terms of our divorce mean that I have to sell the house once DS6 is 18 and that until then I am withholding money from Ex. That is not the case and I have set him straight. She also seems to think that I have magically screwed them both over because I’m a Barrister and therefore all the judges are in my pocket. Obviously very much not the case (I wish), I have no experience in family law and all of the terms were agreed in mediation and with next to no arguing. So she’s just daft and money-grabbing! I have no idea what Ex has been telling her, but we will be having a chat about it.

He also overheard OW teasing Ex that she’d seen me out with a man on her way home and that I was using the opportunity of not having the children at home. I don’t know who she saw but it wasn’t me! My child-free night is usually spent with a takeaway and a film - it’s my one opportunity for peace and quiet! However I did point out that I was allowed to have a private life and that it wouldn’t be dictated by my teenage son. I haven’t seen anyone at all since the split, but I have every right to if that’s what I want. He is perfectly aware that his Dad had an affair as he moved straight in to OW’s flat when we split and his Dad introduced them two days later when he showed up to get his stuff.

All in all it was a good day and he seems much more peaceful since. But his Dad and I have a lot to talk about!

I’m not sure you have to make it about your ex. Just point out, every time, that you have a good job which pays well, and you have never relied on anyone else.

Ignore this post-just saw OP’s update

Jesus .. the OW... what is going on in her brain?

He has children he cant be bothered to parent and shes desperate for no 4....

Your poor son i would proactivrly be getting things in the calendar for him and other male role models (uncles, grandad etc) if possible.

@permanenttrainmy kids are ages 13, 11 and 5, (boy, boy, girl) so similar ages to yours. My 13 year old is hard work even in a fairly normal family home without the stress of divorce. I would be setting him straight on points 1-3 in a child friendly way. But expect him to not understand or believe you or refuse to accept it. Sending you solidarity.

Thank you for your update. Your poor son has been carrying so much. It's great he has had the opportunity to get it all off his chest and he now knows he can approach you with his worries and concerns.
I wonder about approaching your ex with a lot of this. He has already shown you he has disengaged by doing the bare minimum with his children. He has 2 weeks off and has refused his son extra time with him. How that must hurt a 13 year old. He is a poor excuse for a Dad who has not been truthful with the OW.
I would invest the time in building up my children's confidence and self esteem rather than talking to someone who clearly doesn't care. Your children deserve so much better. What your chat has shown that it is better to be open with children. They pick up conversations and have access to information without understanding and being able to process it all properly.
I would seriously consider revisiting the maintenance issue for the children. If he won't step up in other ways he should be contributing financially. You can choose to invest the money for the children's futures but he cannot opt out completely from supporting his children. He thinks he has it all. You doing everything for the children, him and OW having a comfortable life off the backs of his children. Time for accountability and responsibility.

It isn’t strange he’s told the new woman he has money tied up in the house at all. He’s basically future faking her that if she stays with him at some point there’s an extra few hundred grand coming and they’ll be having the swish house, new cars, holiday…
When it doesn’t materialise he’ll say he doesn’t know where she got that from, and you wiped him out in the divorce. She’ll be furious, but at that point she’ll have invested so many years in the relationship she’ll be torn about whether she can walk away and start again.

Yes, he’s been a total scumbag to both of you.

I’m sure OW wouldn’t listen but I wonder if - as she’s still TTC and not actually pregnant - you should send her an email saying DS had got the wrong end of the stick about the divorce settlement and it has worried him about about his house so you just want to be absolutely clear what the agreement was!

Given she was an OW you don’t owe her anything but also she’s clearly being taken for a ride by your lazy, arsehole ex

Well done on having the chat, that's really huge - how are you feeling with it all?

Sounds like your instincts are spot on with your son, and yes having other family members step up where you ex just won't sounds a good supportive move

Where it comes to your ex, he already knows that your son would like more time with him and for whatever reason he's not stepped up, and there is no way to compel him - it'll come crashing down at some point, consequences don't visit gently, which is cold comfort when your kids are neglected. I'm sure you have good reason not to pursue for maintenance, and I don't even think money is what your kids necessarily need so much as proof of priority in his life.

I’d speak to him on his own but also consider if he’s reading anything vaguely incel-y online too as this is a common theme.

That conversation sounds really well handled. I think personally I would lay down a much much firmer line with your ex- I’d get him in person and say firmly I’m getting comments and vibes from the dc that I’m taking your money, and I don’t appreciate it. If I hear any more of that I will be going to court for the maintenance you should be paying since you do fuck all parenting. I’m considering that anyway - ds really wanted to see you over half term and you couldn’t even bother messaging him back. They know you could pick them up from school and just can’t be arsed. I am starting to think some maintenance so I can afford some treats to compensate for your absence from their life would be sensible. In any case, next comment about I’m taking your money and I file for maintenance. I don’t care if it came from you or from OW, you don’t give me a penny and you will cut it out immediately, it’s really damaging to the kids.

Fantastic that your son has spoken to you so openly and that he feels completely safe to do so. Your ex sounds like the wettest of wet blankets, and that’s being pleasant the useless, selfish bastard. Not sure how he managed to go from someone so switched on to someone so… not. But there we are, that is his issue I guess. I’m sorry your children are being hurt by it in the meantime.

Well done

I would tell him all the money part, but not that his dad refused to spend more time with him.

I'd probably also ask for maintenance, just out of principle, and put it all towards the kids (savings, extras) if you don't need it.

Tell him the truth!
My brother has a son who is now 28. My brother paid maintenance for him until he was 25 ( his son is autistic and DB was told he had to pay until that age because he was still at college). He never lived with him or his Mum- I always believed she got pregnant on purpose, then dropped him. So has paid for his son for years- as well as buying clothes, taking him on holiday, new bikes etc etc. My nephew actually let slip a few years ago that he couldn't understand why DB had never given his Mum any money or any help towards anything for his care. So I put him straight on that- and various other things that she'd lied to him about,all of which was lies about DB, me and my Mum. We never saw much of him- his Mum's influence-but we never ever missed his birthday or Christmas.......but he told us that he'd never had anything from any of us for birthdays or Christmas over the years. There were many other things she'd told him that weren't true, some of which were stunning!
DNs mother painted us all in a very bad light so, yes, I would absolutely tell them. They can then make up their own minds about their father. It's not fair that you should be made out to be the bad guy.

Oh well done OP. That sounds like a really good conversation with DS. It's so positive that he's able to share his worries with you.

I agree with pp that it's not really OW being daft and money grabbing. It's your ex who is lying to her about his financial situation!

Your Ex is an absolute shitebag, but well done for handling it all so well, I'd be raging on behalf of your son tbh, and as for the snooping, well your son has maybe learned a lesson not to snoop or you may find out things you didn't want to know, but I feel very sorry for your son finding those things out, but at least you haven't had to be the bad guy in all this.

And as for the OW, wow, just not sure what she's thinking at all! I'd be tempted to let her know there is no money heading her way, but I don't think that's actually constructive, she's made her bed and all that. Your DS knows the truth, so hold your head high and move forward, be the bigger person and getting some strong male role models in your sons life can only be a good thing after his snivelling waste of a father