Should I tell DC more about the divorce?

[permanenttrain]

Name changed for this - apologies for any grammar issues as I’m on my phone.

Ex-H and I split 2 years ago, divorce was finalised 4 months ago. We have 3 DC - DS13, DD11 and DS6. We split because I found out that H was cheating, he has since moved in with OW and they are now engaged.

The split itself was fairly amicable, no fighting in front of the children etc. We had one massive argument when I found out and that was it. We co-parent fairly well together, although I do the vast majority of the childcare/arrangements. He essentially has them for one night every other week and does not pay any maintenance, nor have I asked for any.

Financially I am the much higher earner and the house was mine pre-marriage due to an inheritance. Ex is a teacher and works term-time only, but only has to support himself and OW - plus the kids one night EOW.

The issue is this - over the last few months DS13 has been making increasingly nasty little comments to me and I’m sure that they must have been said to him by Ex or OW. The nanny has also reported that when I am away for work (a couple of nights a month) he also makes comments about me and my “commitment to my children”.

Examples:

1. I recently told DS that he couldn’t have another pair of trainers as they were too expensive and he didn’t need them, but that if he really wanted them he could put them on his Christmas list (trying to teach him the value of money). His response was to have a tantrum and question where the money his Dad pays me is going?! He doesn’t pay me a penny! Nor does he pay for any of their extra-curricular activities or trips or even bloody pocket money!
2. When I came back from a work trip recently he questioned who I’d been with and asked if I had really been away for work or just off having a nice time away from them.
3. I bought a black tie dress to go to work event recently and he apparently told the nanny that evening that I was wasting all the money I’d “won” in the divorce. It was always my bloody money!

His behaviour is now starting to filter down to DD and I think this needs nipping in the bud. I think he’s old enough for me to sit him down and tell him a bit more about the divorce and our split (in a sanitised way) and maybe answer some questions that he might have.

I want to say:

1. I gave his Dad a bit of money in the divorce - he did not give me any money or pay anything towards the house.
2. We always kept our finances separate and kept a joint account for joint expenses, I do not owe his Dad any money. I don’t think it’s appropriate to tell him that his Dad actually emptied that account when he left.
3. His Dad does not pay any money towards them. Anything they have had over the last 2 years has been solely provided by me. I have not asked him for a contribution and he has not offered one.
4. I offered their Dad 50:50 custody but he refused it unless I paid for an additional full time nanny until the youngest is 13. I refused and he immediately said he was happy with his one night.

I understand that it has been difficult for him with having a Dad who was around a lot until a couple of years ago, but I don’t think I should have to be the villain here. Thoughts?

I would speak to DS13 on his own. I'd explain the money part- that his Dad doesn't pay any maintenence.
I wouldn't say the part about the refusal of 50/50. He is probably struggling with seeing less of his dad and seeing his dad in a new relationship.
Do you manage to have any time on your own just him? You sound very busy and have 3 kids. I try to have time on my own with each of my 2 (also co-parenting) and then conversations open up.
Good luck!

honestly, I would tell them that he cheated and gives you no money and they you’ve paid for everything, I would tell them about the account being emptied as well.

also is your son accessing ‘manosphere’ content to develop these views?

I can't think why you wouldn't tell him 1,2 and 3 - they are simply matters of fact. Up unil now I would say if anything you (and your ex) have been guilty of misleading him. Number 4 is a bit trickier as it could affect how loved and wanted by his dad it makes him feel. You don't say what if anything your ex has said to him about any of this. Do you think it's coming from him?

Ha @Woolwichchicken I nearly suggested the same thing re the manosphere!- teenage boys can find and share some pretty toxic stuff - he wants putting straight either way

I would tell them the truth about everything.

I would also ask what claptrap their dad had been telling them.

Shut it down.

I wish I were in your position financially.

You know you can’t say number 4, you’ve got to know that, don’t you? No child should ever think their parents had to be persuaded to have them. The rest, definitely talk to him about it being your money! And talk to your ex AND his wife- I don’t think things are as amicable as you think if they’re coming out with this sort of stuff

Your son is still very young and his behaviour is telling you that he is struggling with all the changes. From what you have said here, he might be uncertain about how much of a priority he is to you (I understand he is your top priority, it sounds like he is not feeling it).

He also may be wondering how much of a priority he is to his dad, but that is not really for you to fix.

I would make certain that he gets regular one to one time with you, and make sure he knows that this time is important to you. Even 15 minutes a day.

Do things with him that he enjoys, play a game of cards or an online game, simple things. Make sure he knows that you like spending time with him.

And do explain you get no money whatsoever from his dad, and that you are happy with this arrangement. I would keep that piece fairly neutral and calm so he doesn’t feel like he has to pick a side.

Tell it all even the bit about ex clearing out joint funds, ex has clearly been talking shit so set the record straight. Tell him the exact figure that his dad got off you in divorce, let him know that your the money not his pig of a dad and you don’t appreciate the snide comments.

tell him all of it. Including 4 but maybe with a different spin, so he knows you aren’t keeping him from his dad.

And definitely tell him that his dad cleaned you out

My grandma always stayed silent about the reasons for her divorce (my grandpa was an abusive alcoholic and a compulsive womaniser). My aunt / her eldest always held her leaving him against her. My grandma said she made a point of not criticising him as she wanted them to have a relationship with their father (who only showed up twice to visit them, but my grandma still encouraged them to write letters). My grandma is now 95 and my aunt is still passive aggressive towards her, even knowing the truth now. I suppose I share this to say I think there is a middle ground to be struck. You don’t have to sink to your ex’s behaviour but I think it would be beneficial to be more open with your DC xx

I wouldn't share that his Dad had refused more nights. But the rest I would share, calmly and factually, if you hear more of those comments.

Yes i would tell them all of this.

On 4
I offered their Dad 50:50 custody but he refused it unless I paid for an additional full time nanny until the youngest is 13. This would have cost me £60k pa which is £100k pre tax* This wasnt reasonanle so I refused and he said in that case he was happy with his one night. I've been clear if he ever wants more access he can have it. You always have a home here.

*or whatever outrage it costs

Your DS in particular is vulnerable to manosphere BS right now. I imagine some it is from here but I still think you shpuld address it

They should know the truth in an age appropriate way.

I would share the information but in a sit down planned conversation rather than snapping back when comments are made.
You can present it as a "work with me to teach you the value of money / I want to set expectations about Christmas"

Can you get an appointment with a family relationship counsellor for you and him to tell him all this but in a supported way where he may be encouraged by a third party to ask any questions he wants

I agree with pp. I wouldn't immediately jump to the conclusion that it came from the ex and it's just as likely it's come from the internet. I would find that out first eg check his internet history.

But otherwise be honest yes. I'm confused why you didn't correct these things (eg you spending all dad's money) at the time. What did you say?

At 13 he is probably feeling like he isn't a priority to his father but is projecting that onto you as the one that is actually there.

So
Check where this came from
Be honest
Work on ds self esteem re his father. Perhaps he could talk to a trusted make family member? Uncle, grandfather?

If you're now amicably coparenting, it may be worth asking your ex if he's hearing any of this nonsense.

It does sound quite manosphere, so I'd also clear this up with him. If he's old enough to be spreading this negativity, he's old enough to be corrected.
I'd also get him some help to rid him of the madness before it takes root.

Sorry, I'd tell the eldest everything. He's old enough to be saying these things so he's old enough to be put right and know the truth. Leave it too long and his beliefs will be ingrained and have become the truth.

Yes I’d sit them down and tell them the truth. You aren’t doing them or yourself any favours by protecting your ex husband

you can be factual and clear without bringing any emotion into it

Absolutely tell him the truth. As someone else has said it is facts. I would even be tempted to get out any evidence or documents if you have any to show him.

Not the 50.50 but the rest yeah

Everything but not the 50/50. I would probably phrase that to say you are not stopping them seeing their Dad either. That way he can talk to his Dad about more contact.

Definitely put him right about the money in the divorce and the lack of any money for anything coming from his Dad, no child support, no sharing of costs for uniform or anything else they need.

These are just facts. He cheated, you did not.

OP I think it is highly, highly likely that his dad or his bit on the side have been telling your DS13 about this. There are a few things that stood out to me to make this apparent;

• He's using adult financial and relationship grievances to challenge your parenting. He is using terminology and references that he should really not know much about;
• A typical teenager might say, "Why can't you buy me those trainers? You've got loads of money!" But this boy is asking where "his dad's payments" are going.
• He's framing your work travel as evidence that you might not be committed to your children.
• He's describing your spending as irresponsible because of money you supposedly "received in the divorce."

The last point is especially interesting as he's not annoyed you won't buy him something he wants, he is making a moral judgement about your usage of money that he THINKS you have.

So, where has he acquired that narrative?
Possibly his dad, OW, conversations he's overheard, or his own interpretation of things he's been told. However, my suspicion is that someone has given him a version of events in which you are financially privileged, selfish or somehow indebted to his dad. He is very much repeating an adult narrative on the version of these events. I would suspect them both, especially your awful XH given his behaviour thus far.

People not wanting you to tell him about the 50:50 is interesting, and I agree, but not just for aforementioned reasons (that I've read so far) by PPs. His dad doesn't want them 50/50, he doesn't want to have to pay for the nanny, and has honestly probably told him that he can't afford to see him more because you "won" all the money in the divorce. Your DS knowing the truth would be crushed tbqh, but I think it is important for them to know who their parents really are to save a shattered image later down the line, or to not risk the potential of them idolising them and thinking their behaviour is okay. However, in this case given the circumstances, don't.

The secondary reason that I would not tell him is because, especially given his attack on you so far, it will likely backfire onto you.

Imagine being 13 and hearing that your dad would have spent more time with you if your mum had paid for a nanny. He could interpret that as rejection, feel compelled to defend his dad, or become angry with both parents. He doesn't need to be shielded from reality forever, but he shouldn't have to carry the emotional weight of adult negotiations about his care, and that is above all else most important.

I think ultimately there are a whole host of things at play here. He might be angry about the divorce, resentful of you, protective of his dad, or struggling with the fact that his dad has a new life. He might feel that criticising you demonstrates loyalty to his dad. Divorce really does mess with kids heads more than many people care to realise.

Honestly what I would do OP is give it to him straight about the finances. His behaviour towards you is unacceptable and completely unfair given how much of a disgrace his 'dad' is. Just don't mention the 50:50 thing because it's not fair on him. Let him ask questions and answer honestly. Be honest about everything, he will value that more than sweet nothings to make him feel better, but just be cautious. In time I am sure that he will see his dad for what he really is and want little to do with him. Carry on being his rock and his safe space. It's ironically a good sign he is venting his anger to you because you make him feel safe enough to do so. I doubt he does with his sperm donor.

To respond to some of the things people have commented:

When I say it is “amicable”, I mean between him and I it’s fine. We had a 1:1 sit down a few months after the split and agreed to be civil and talk it out whenever we have disagreements about the children. When he comes to pick them up (because I made it clear that I would not be ferrying them to his just because he’s lazy) he comes in and has a coffee with me while they pack their bits up. We have a pleasant chat but that’s about all the contact we have - there haven’t been any disagreements because he’s so uninvolved. When it was time to decide on schools for DS and DD I asked him if he wanted to have a sit down and look at some options together, but he said that I would know more about their needs and would trust my judgement. I will never ever stop him from seeing the children whenever he wants, but I’ll be damned if I’m going to run around after him and make him look like the best Dad in the world.

The fact remains that he lives a 15 minute walk away and finishes at 4pm. He could pick DS13 or DD up from school on his way home if he wanted to spend more time with them. He could have extra days in the school holidays with them if he wanted to! He never did pick up or drop off with the kids after we got a Nanny, I think he used her as a bit of an excuse to be honest.

OW is a different story. I’m sure she’s perfectly capable of being pleasant but on the handful of occasions that we’ve met she’s been horrific. Ex has enough sense to stick to my rule that she cannot come to the house EVER. Thankfully she seems to have calmed down since the divorce, but I wonder if she expected him to walk away with more money. The kids don’t see her much either as she often goes to see her parents when they’re at their Dads.

It’s possible that he’s picked up some of the manosphere nonsense from the Internet, but he’s not on any social media and I’ve got all of the devices locked down tight. I will have a look at what he’s been accessing online - but luckily he’s not quite as obsessed with tech as other teens! I wonder if it’s something he’s been exposed to at school as it’s all boys. His Dad was always very supportive of my career (because it paid for everything) and never spouted off that nonsense so I don’t expect that bit to have come from him. But I suppose that might have changed now that he’s no longer benefitting from it.

To be honest DS13 probably gets more 1:1 time with me than the others do. I take him to training on a Saturday morning while the little ones are at swimming with my parents and we usually have lunch out afterwards, so we do have a good relationship. We also usually have dinner as a family at least 4x a week, clubs and work dependant.

I like the suggestion about him spending time with other male relatives. He’s always been very close to my Dad so I might buy them a pair of rugby tickets and send them off for the day. Will probably have to have a word with my Dad about not being too blunt about his feeling about Ex - but it might be worth them also having a chat about DS’s feelings.

The benefit of it being half-term is that he’s around more this week and my work is quieter. I think I’ll surprise him in the morning and take him with me to work, which he really enjoys. I’ve got a couple of meetings in the morning but then I can take him out for lunch and a look around the shops. It will be a good opportunity to have a chat and spend some time together, I’ll have to see if I have the time to do the same with DD later in the week. Not buying him the trainers though!

I agree with not telling him no.4, when he’s a bit older I’m sure he’ll figure it all out. But I think we’re overdue a sit down and grown up talk. If I have to I’ll tell him about the joint funds, but I don’t think it’s necessary and I don’t want to wreck his relationship with his Dad.

It’s funny - I picked a man who I really thought would grow with me and who would be my partner for life. But in reality he’s the boy who never grew up from his late 20s! He was so good with DC1+2 when they were young, but by the time DC3 came along he’d pretty much checked out.

I would ask your DS if he would like more time with his Dad, and if he would you are very happy for him to do so. Obviously you can’t make your ex have him but you can tell him in front of DS what his wishes are.

It’s so disappointing your ex is only bothering once a week when they all have the school holidays off!

Don't say the bit about snide comments.