Was I on the wrong? (Knocking cyclist off bike)

[PapayaMarmalade]

I was driving in London this week, and paused to wait for a gap before I turned right off a single lane two way 20mph road.

As I turned, a lime bike came whizzing down the centre of the road from behind me on my right hand side - I didn’t see them and knocked them off. They were probably on the central dotted line or maybe slightly over on the wrong side of the road. They got up and sped off before I even had my wits together to pull over and check if they were okay.

It shook me up and I realise I should have rechecked my right hand mirror again before turning - I just wasn’t anticipating a cyclist overtaking me on my right hand side.

Whilst I should have been more careful to recheck my mirror, was I legally in the wrong?

Diagram attached hopefully

Based on the rules of the Highway Code, both of you made errors, but you as the motorist bear a higher legal responsibility for the collision.

Under the UK Hierarchy of Road Users (Rule H1), drivers of motor vehicles bear the greatest responsibility to reduce danger to more vulnerable road users like cyclists.

Rule H3 of the highway code states that the cyclist should have priority in those circumstances.

If you imagine that you are turning left into a junction, you should give way to any cyclists coming up behind you on your left filtering through slow moving traffic, there's even a picture in the highway code to illustrate it.. I can't imagine why it would be different if you are turning right and the cyclist is filtering on your right, it's the same principle.

But should does not mean must, and the two things are very different with regards to the rules.

It's the same rules as you should let pedestrians cross the side road if you are turning in, it isn't a must rule, but you'd be in deep shit if you hit one because you should have let them cross.

Bloody cyclists!

https://news.stv.tv/east-central/driver-who-left-cyclist-with-brain-injury-following-road-rage-incident-avoids-jail

I feel like it is 50/50. Op was stationary and indicating right so cyclist shouldn’t have overtaken. OP should have checked her mirrors and blind spot immediately before turning - it tells you to do that in the Highway Code.

You were absolutely in the wrong. You should ALWAYS check before turning right, for cyclists and motorcyclists who can all legally be coming up on your outside.

There's another thing which nobody has mentioned so far: because cyclists are usually slower than cars, usually you overtake them, at some point before they come up behind you. Not always, because cyclists can come out of side roads behind you as well as from off the pavement, but it means that you know "I overtook a cyclist, it might catch up with me". This is more significant in your mind than you might think, especially if you are about to turn left, across the cyclist's path.

An important difference with these rocket-powered Lime bikes and other electric bikes is that they can go practically as fast as cars in town, especially towns with that hallowed safety measure of the 20mph speed limit, meaning that they are more likely to sneak up behind you unexpectedly, and they are very, very silent, unlike motorbikes, which you can hear. Yes, drivers should be using mirrors. But it's another reason why these electric bikes are harder to spot and anticipate, which the riders need to be aware of.

Your insurer would settle his claim against you for sure. Always check before turning fur bikes and cycles

The Highway Code states that both:

Rule 180 - when executing a right-hand turn, check to make sure you are not being overtaken before making the turn,

AND

Rule 167 – do not overtake when a road user is indicating right.

From what the OP has described, the cyclist was likely on the other side of the road, or close to this, when they attempted to pass the OP's car. So this is not the OP cutting off the cyclist when the cyclist was riding in a bike lane or inside lane (ie, a space where they are permitted to be) – rather, the cyclist was trying to get ahead of the traffic.

This is exactly why filtering (or lane splitting) is risky, and cyclists are warned to take great care before doing it.

Unless the OP signalled late, I'd say that the fault lies with the cyclist. Given the rules around pedestrian priority at intersections, we need drivers who are turning right to be paying attention to oncoming traffic and to pedestrians crossing the road they are turning into. The cyclist in the OP's case should have waited or, if it was safe to do so, passed on the left.

But the OP wasn't turning left, they were turning right.

The usual practice is for cyclists to ride on the left hand side of the road (especially if there is a bike lane) or the centre. It sounds like this cyclist has decided they do not want to get held back by any traffic, and has therefore decided to filter down the centre of the road. I don't think this is road behaviour we ought to encourage.

If it’s not taking you a few seconds then you are not checking properly.

Why are you so triggered?

You don’t think the safety of bike users are important?

I'm a cyclist and people on the lime bikes and scooters are a crazy other category of very inexperienced riders. They're terrifying as another cyclist too. Tey do things like come up one way cycle lanes the wrong way and entirely ignore red lights.

I think probably the cyclist was more in the wrong if you were indicating. But now that these bike/scooter share schemes exist we all have to use the roads with extra awareness that there are idiots on fast turbo charged electric bikes and scooters who use the roads with the mentality of an unaware pedestrian.

No one was hurt by the sounds of it so I think you can just move on and be more aware next time.

Of course things can overtake on the right. But not when you are stationary about to turn. I don't think a car is allowed to do that either.

OP- did you report it?

But the OP wasn't turning left, they were turning right.
The usual practice is for cyclists to ride on the left hand side of the road

Usual practic doesn't really mean anything.

It doesn't matter which side they are on, the principle is the same, cyclists are allowed to filter on either side in slow moving traffic, so whichever way you are turning, you should check and give priority to them if they are filtering past you following the rules of heirarchy (H3)

RULE 163
Cyclists may pass slower moving or stationary traffic on their right or left and should proceed with caution as the driver may not be able to see you. Be careful about doing so, particularly on the approach to junction

Personally I think the rule is tricky, the highway code tells cyclists not to overtake a vehicle indicating right in one rule, but tells the car driver they should give way to the cyclist filtering in another.

I can't imagine many cyclists would do what OPs cyclist did, but you can't say he did anything wrong by filtering as it is perfectly legal.

A car is different as it is not a more vulnerable road user.. the heirarchy of road users rule state that a car should give priority to a cyclist filtering when turning into a side road (which can be from behind on either side of them), the onus is on the car driver to check for them.

Different rules state that you should not overtake a car indicating to turn (which includes filtering cyclists), but if he didn't see OP indicationg until she turned then he wasn't purposely doing anything wrong.

The prioirty is always going to be the more vulnerable road user, in this case the cyclist.

I absolutely think the safety of bike riders is important.

That's why I am so "triggered" by the number of people on this thread who are ignoring the very basic rule of the road as described above:

Under the UK Hierarchy of Road Users (Rule H1), drivers of motor vehicles bear the greatest responsibility to reduce danger to more vulnerable road users like cyclists.

The Highway Code says that cyclists can overtake on the right (as well as undertake on the left) if cars/vans are slow moving or stopped. So yes they can. The driver is supposed to look in their mirrors before executing the manoeuvre.

It is but we have no proof that the op was indicating. Irrespective of this she was turning right, which means she needs to be aware of being overtaken as well as on coming traffic.

There is no way that any insurance claim would be settled in her favour. She clearly didn't check it was safe to proceed. Yes the cyclist could and I say could have waited, but it's not their responsibility to do so

One thing I have noticed a lot, especially where I live, people do not ride the line when turning right, they sit in the middle of the road with their indicator on.. you can't pass them on the left and it also creates situation like this where someone filtering can't see them till they are on them because they are blocked by vehicles behind them.. it could explain what happened to OP, or it could be that he quickly changed from the left side to the right side and didn't see her in time because of that.

It is very doubtful that he came past thinking it was his right of way and OP would see him and give way to him.. because right or not, no cyclist in their right mind would assume that surely.

I was indicating.

Ofc, goes without saying for me, although it sounds like they did behave in a risky way.

well seeing as the case I linked to earlier - the judge decided it was 50;50

so where are you getting that the insurance would go the other way?

Rule 163
Overtake only when it is safe and legal to do so. You should

• not get too close to the vehicle you intend to overtake
• use your mirrors, signal when it is safe to do so, take a quick sideways glance if necessary into the blind spot area and then start to move out
• not assume that you can simply follow a vehicle ahead which is overtaking; there may only be enough room for one vehicle
• move quickly past the vehicle you are overtaking, once you have started to overtake. Allow plenty of room. Move back to the left as soon as you can but do not cut in
• take extra care at night and in poor visibility when it is harder to judge speed and distance
• give way to oncoming vehicles before passing parked vehicles or other obstructions on your side of the road
• only overtake on the left if the vehicle in front is signalling to turn right, and there is room to do so
• stay in your lane if traffic is moving slowly in queues. If the queue on your right is moving more slowly than you are, you may pass on the left. Cyclists may pass slower moving or stationary traffic on their right or left and should proceed with caution as the driver may not be able to see you. Be careful about doing so, particularly on the approach to junctions, and especially when deciding whether it is safe to pass lorries or other large vehicles.

only overtake on the left if the vehicle in front is signalling to turn right - the op was indicating to turn right

where are you getting it that you can overtake a vehicle indicating to turn right?

Imo the cyclist was at fault. Did you hospitalise them?

They got up and sped off before I even had my wits together to pull over and check if they were okay.

the op wrote this in the first post