Was I on the wrong? (Knocking cyclist off bike)

[PapayaMarmalade]

I was driving in London this week, and paused to wait for a gap before I turned right off a single lane two way 20mph road.

As I turned, a lime bike came whizzing down the centre of the road from behind me on my right hand side - I didn’t see them and knocked them off. They were probably on the central dotted line or maybe slightly over on the wrong side of the road. They got up and sped off before I even had my wits together to pull over and check if they were okay.

It shook me up and I realise I should have rechecked my right hand mirror again before turning - I just wasn’t anticipating a cyclist overtaking me on my right hand side.

Whilst I should have been more careful to recheck my mirror, was I legally in the wrong?

Diagram attached hopefully

How was a driver turning right in the wrong for turning right?

it’s one of the times you can overtake on the left in these situations and that’s for a reason

”it’s a lime bike, not a rocket”. These days, the main difference is that a rocket is much noisier.

Still on team OP here, it’s time cyclists took a look at themselves. Did the cyclist have lights, or was it daylight? I’ve had near misses with cyclists who had no lights on an unlit 60mph road. I once yelled at one “no lights, do you realise I might easily have killed you?”, and I have no regrets about yelling it.

And when are we going to see prison sentences for cyclists on the pavement who yell at pedestrians “move out of the way, I’m not stopping” before running them over and killing them?

scalt

what am I looking at?

Waiting to turn right.

The road user travelling straight in has priority over the one turning, however, I will await correction from someone who can quote the Highway Code rather than their interpretation of it.

As if that helps with people who cycle in a dangerous manner. Just as the Highway Code and a driving license don't mean anything to some motorists.

To the op this was a person on a Lime Bike not a cyclist. Speaking as a cyclist I would NOT have attempted to go on your right. I would be anticipating you signalling/slowing down. There might even be a vehicle waiting to turn right out of that side road and you might have allowed them to move out. Cyclist completely in the wrong

Neither have a lot of motorists who present a greater danger than cyclists

He turned right when the coast wasn’t clear.

He wouldn’t pull out from a slip road onto an A or M road without checking there was nothing coming, so the same rules apply on residential roads.

The right wing mirror is there for a reason.

He was absolutely in the wrong and if the cyclist had stopped and reported OPs insurance would have had to pay-out for bike damage and any injury.

OP drove into the cyclist because he didn’t check his mirror.

Liability risks: If a crash happens while you are overtaking a right-turning vehicle, UK courts often split liability (for example, 50/50 under Pell v Moseley or apportioning blame between the overtaker and the turning driver who failed to check mirrors)

I’d still never overtake a driver turning right, regardless of whether in a bike or in a car

Same. I was so glad it wasn't me driving on our last trip. Those lime bikes are a complete menace, the riders appear to have no regard for their own life. I saw so many near misses.

So it would appear after reading this thread.

No you cannot EASILY see them.

All cars have a blind spot and so many accidents happened because you can check your mirrors and blind spot and mirrors again and in that time someone has come into your blind spot.

OP was in the wrong but all cars have an area called a blind spot for a reason and that’s because things can be easily missed.

Bikes especially, have to take responsibility for knowing that a car cannot always see you.

Even lorries have stickers saying things like if you can’t see my mirrors, I can’t see you etc

Sorry OP: you must have had a real fright.

You should have checked, but equally the cyclist was also to blame. I think he knew it too!

Not anticipating ≠ at fault

This isn't about not anticipating.

When moving out of your lane it's your responsibility to ensure you aren't moving into the path of another vehicle. It can be tricky and a quick look, especially in urban traffic, may not be enough. But OP says she didn't even check her mirror just before she moved, let alone look over her shoulder or otherwise make sure it was clear.

You’ve explained it perfectly.

Everyone on a motorway knows you are merging on but it is still up to the person merging to check the mirrors and check it’s clear.

If it’s not clear, then you don’t merge.

If you are turning right, then you would hope no one would overtake you on the right but it’s your responsibility to check your mirrors and blind spots before manoeuvring.

• stay in your lane if traffic is moving slowly in queues. If the queue on your right is moving more slowly than you are, you may pass on the left. Cyclists may pass slower moving or stationary traffic on their right or left and should proceed with caution as the driver may not be able to see you. Be careful about doing so, particularly on the approach to junctions, and especially when deciding whether it is safe to pass lorries or other large vehicles.

The above from Rule 163 of the Highway Code, for cyclists. Did Lime Bike rider follow the advice "Be careful about doing so, particularly on the approach to junctions"?

See also Rule 167:

• "DO NOT overtake where you might come into conflict with other road users. For example, when a road user is indicating right, even if you believe the signal should have been cancelled. Do not take a risk; wait for the signal to be cancelled.

There we are. The rule which Lime Bike rider failed to observe is here, in black and white, clear as crystal. The OP is no more at fault than the cyclist.

It's funny how cyclists are suddenly being given knighted and given golden haloes in this thread, when they're normally hated by MN, especially the MAMILs.

Rule 180 of the Highway Code is very clear:

Wait until there is a safe gap between you and any oncoming vehicle. Watch out for cyclists, motorcyclists, pedestrians and other road users. Check your mirrors and blind spot again to make sure you are not being overtaken, then make the turn.

If you don't have the mental capacity to check your mirrors and blind spot properly and make a prompt turn you shouldn't be driving. Your mirrors give you a view of what may appear in your blind spot.

Turning right
Rule 179
Well before you turn right you should

• use your mirrors to make sure you know the position and movement of traffic behind you
• give a right-turn signal
• take up a position just left of the middle of the road or in the space marked for traffic turning right
• leave room for other vehicles to pass on the left, if possible.

Rule 180 Wait until there is a safe gap between you and any oncoming vehicle. Watch out for cyclists, motorcyclists, pedestrians and other road users. Check your mirrors and blind spot again to make sure you are not being overtaken, then make the turn. Do not cut the corner. Take great care when turning into a main road; you will need to watch for traffic in both directions and wait for a safe gap.

www.gov.uk/guidance/the-highway-code/using-the-road-159-to-203

Indeed.

For example:

From rule 167

DO NOT overtake where you might come into conflict with other road users. For example

• approaching or at a road junction on either side of the road
• when a road user is indicating right, even if you believe the signal should have been cancelled. Do not take a risk; wait for the signal to be cancelled.

Rule 69

You MUST obey all traffic signs and traffic light signals.

Rule 68
You MUST NOT

• ride in a dangerous, careless or inconsiderate manner

Rule 72 Road positioning. 1) Ride in the centre of your lane, to make yourself as clearly visible as possible,

Rule 167 applies to ALL road users, including cyclists. Cyclists have additional rules, including the ones listed above.

The hierarchy rule does not absolve a cyclist from obeying the Highway Code.

So while the OP should certainly have rechecked, it doesn't mean that the cyclist wasn't also at fault.

More cyclists should know their highway code.

Couldn’t agree with you more.

Lime bikes a law unto themselves. They don't stop when someone is crossing a zebra.

I have said multiple times that OP was in the wrong because it’s on her to check her mirrors and blind spot.

But I am disagreeing with you that bikes are EASY to see because they’re not.

OP could have checked but there’s nothing stopping a bike overtaking the car behind and then overtaking OP within the few seconds that OP had checked her mirrors and started turning.

Bikes need to take more responsibility on the roads.

I hope the cyclist is OK - must have been a shock to be knocked off your bike

I would say you’re exonerated because you don’t overtake on a junction.

A few seconds???

If it takes the OP a few seconds between checking their mirrors and blind spot and moving, they are not fit to drive.

I think (with the rules I quoted) this is the answer though if the OP signalled very late the person on the scooter could have been committed.

As a cyclist, if I saw a RH signal I would have overtaken on the left (which is allowed) but I might also have done that if I saw a car sitting in the middle of the road like a lemon with no signal.