Was I on the wrong? (Knocking cyclist off bike)

[PapayaMarmalade]

I was driving in London this week, and paused to wait for a gap before I turned right off a single lane two way 20mph road.

As I turned, a lime bike came whizzing down the centre of the road from behind me on my right hand side - I didn’t see them and knocked them off. They were probably on the central dotted line or maybe slightly over on the wrong side of the road. They got up and sped off before I even had my wits together to pull over and check if they were okay.

It shook me up and I realise I should have rechecked my right hand mirror again before turning - I just wasn’t anticipating a cyclist overtaking me on my right hand side.

Whilst I should have been more careful to recheck my mirror, was I legally in the wrong?

Diagram attached hopefully

Did you check your wing mirror? Mind you, it's easily done. If they are unhurt and scarpered, then try and forget about it.

I’m onus is on you to check your mirrors again before committing to that turn but what a fucking idiot of a cyclist to continue travelling in the centre of the road when you were presumably sat there indicating to turn?

Cyclists are a law unto themselves it seems. They need to bring back the cycling proficiency test IMO.

I was indeed stationery in the road indicating. I suspect they may have woven from the left hand side further back rather than being right in the middle of the road the entire team I was there or I’m sure I would have seen them. That said, lime bikes are very fast so they maybe whizzed up and I just neglected to check

Were you indicating to turn right? The cyclist was stupid to overtake you before you turned but you should check it is safe to turn before turning, in built up areas that particularly includes checking for bikes and motorbikes

Cyclist is in the wrong place and bloody stupid but you should have checked your mirrors.

Were you indicating?

I do think with bikes it doesn't really matter who technically is in the wrong, you just have to drive as if they are all lobotomised because getting it wrong can be so disastrous for them. Many of them do seem to indeed be lobotomised as well.

I tend to quadruple check because of those pesky little delivery mopeds who clearly have no idea about the rules of the road. They are so annoying. But I don't want to kill them, so...

When turning any direction you need to check mirrors and blinds spots, you may not have been expecting a cyclist to overtake on the right, but thats a normal line for a filtering motorcyclist to take.

Pretty sure insurance would find you at fault, maybe not 100%, but you'd be taking more of the fault than the cyclist as you were the one executing a manoeuvre

You probably should have checked, but if you were indicating the cyclist was a complete idiot not to have noticed, and to have tried to go past you on your right.

I haven't lived in London for nearly 30 years now, but whenever I visit I am shocked at how the cyclists in London behave, and some of those on Lime bikes are the worst of all. I am amazed there aren't more fatalities frankly. It's like the Wild West

Technically yes, your insurance will pay out to them

But cyclists are often awful in london, honestly. Hope youre okay, I know it must be a shock

Legally, and I’m sure I’ll be corrected if wrong, the cyclist have a priority at junctions.
Also, as a car is more dangerous than a bike the driver has a high responsibility than a cyclist.

Have you checked the Highway Code to see who has priority?

No legal expect but here’s how I’d read it:

If you’re clearly waiting to turn, positioned correctly, indicators on, then no I wouldn’t expect anyone to overtake you on the right like that (whether car bike or horse). If you’re waiting a while and pulled over close to the center of the road then cars might try to squeeze past on the left (and bikes can get past there no problem). Otherwise cars should wait behind until you turn and I’d expect bikes to overtake on the left. The only way you’d be in the wrong I think is if you didn’t indicate you’re turning right so it maybe looks like you’re stopping to let a passenger out or something like that, in which case it would be appropriate for others to overtake on the right. I guess the bike didn’t notice your true intention.

I’m glad the cyclist got up so apparently was ok. Sounds like the experience will make you more careful of cyclists, which is no bad thing! But I don’t think you drove badly, even though yes a final check of mirrors is definitely good to include. It’s hard for cars and bikes to share the road because they naturally act quite differently and the size discrepancy puts cyclists at such risk.

I agree the cyclist should not have been overtaking you, as you had an indicator on. I have had a scooter driver try to overtake as I was turning right in a car, and a car did overtake while I turning right on my bicycle, that could have been worse for me. I now try to remember to check my right mirror or look over my shoulder when turning right for the stupid on our roads. It's not just cyclists that do this.

Cyclist's fault! What sort of idiot tries to overtake a vehicle that's indicating to turn right???

Worth remembering that anyone can get on a Limebike. They might never have operated a vehicle in their lives before. They might not be used to driving on the left. They might be off their tits. I'm not saying I like it, but you do have to be extra cautious.

They were in the wrong - you can’t overtake on the right if the vehicle you’re overtaking is indicating to turn right. Provided you were indicating, it wasn’t your fault.

Of course it’s still a good idea to check as people make mistakes / are idiots sometimes. It sounds as if there was no harm done anyway so I wouldn’t worry.

It shook me up and I realise I should have rechecked my right hand mirror again before turning

As an aside, never rely on mirrors. Always look over your shoulder. It's called a blind spot for a reason.

If you were indicating, it's very poor roadcraft from the cyclist. A vehicle indicating right is predictably going to turn right. However, you would likely have been primarily liable in an insurance claim, with split liability for their actions, because you should have done a secondary check before starting the turn.

If you weren't indicating, you are completely at fault.

I would say legally and morally you are not at fault, essentially the cyclist overtook a car that was wainting and indicating to turn right. Probably the reason the cyclist went off rather than shout at yhou is because they feel they were at fault.

Like most others have said here, yes you should have checked your wing mirrors again but cyclist a total idiot for attempting to overtake in this situation. I’m pro-cyclist (cycle to the station most mornings)but the situation in London is ridiculous and unsafe. Anyone can pick up an e-bike like a Lime with no proficiency or knowledge of the road. Many young people in London don’t drive so there’s not even basic understanding of the laws of the road.

Added to that I would say that at least 50% of Lime bike users I see are wearing ear buds, which hugely reduce your awareness. A huge amount are on phones as well, not just making calls but browsing / typing - on major central London roads. It baffles me, it just seems so unsafe.

Hope you're ok, must have been a nasty shock.

It might surprise you to know that in my experience, at least 20% of car drivers will overtake a cyclist who is indicating to turn right.

You are always in the wrong if you knock a cyclist or pedestrian over. They are much more vulnerable than you, sitting in your protective shield of tons of metal. You've said you didn't check your wing mirror so no excuse.

But the cyclist was doing an unsafe overtake. What would the rules be if a car had done exactly the same thing?

It's a Lime bike. What more do you need to know? Try being a pedestrian in London atm. It's an absolute shit-show.