Was I on the wrong? (Knocking cyclist off bike)

[PapayaMarmalade]

I was driving in London this week, and paused to wait for a gap before I turned right off a single lane two way 20mph road.

As I turned, a lime bike came whizzing down the centre of the road from behind me on my right hand side - I didn’t see them and knocked them off. They were probably on the central dotted line or maybe slightly over on the wrong side of the road. They got up and sped off before I even had my wits together to pull over and check if they were okay.

It shook me up and I realise I should have rechecked my right hand mirror again before turning - I just wasn’t anticipating a cyclist overtaking me on my right hand side.

Whilst I should have been more careful to recheck my mirror, was I legally in the wrong?

Diagram attached hopefully

Thank you for the self righteous reply (a simple disagreementof opinions would have sufficed) but I will solemnly go back and study my highway code front to back again.... 🙄
Liability would actually be determined on a case by case basis. Although cyclists have the legal right to under and overtake traffic, they have a responsibility to also use the road safely. If OP was correctly positioned and indicating before turning then the cyclist could be liable for damage or injury caused too. Equally OP could be liable because she didn't check her mirrors before turning. Its not quite as clear cut as you're making out.

1. Please don't call Lime Bike customers cyclists. They are not. The whole lime bike model (and the others) encourages irresponsibility and risk taking, unlike actual cyclists who cycle defensively.
2. People saying you didn't check HAVE NO IDEA how quick these things go. You can check all you like but they will appear out of nowhere in nano seconds. They are assisted to 15mph, so down hill and peddling, easily faster.
3. Something will have to be done about them, hundreds of A&E visits now happening due to LB incidents. Trauma wards are seeing a hugh skew in their patient profile, traditionally old people with breaks from falls, now more and more young uns from LB accidents.

This is the UK so sadly money and business rule but I fear at some point there will be a huge and horrific accident that will move the dial and finally get some order into this wild West industry.

and as for ILLEGAL electric bikes used by fast food despatch riders. All the above x2. Utter utter madness.

This almost happened to me a few months ago. I was slowing down to turn right, into a side street. No oncoming traffic, was a quiet village. Spotted a flash in my driver side wing mirror and a balaclaved male overtook me on the right, on his surron. I felt sick at how close he had been, especially as he had no helmet on. Shouldn’t be overtaking a car indicating and turning right.

The cyclist may well have been an idiot* but I think an insurance company would find you at fault.

*I am an avid and careful cyclist

This is a road traffic collision and you must report it to the police. Realistically nothing will happen because the cyclist left immediately so you can’t provide any details. However you must report to protect yourself in case they do go to the police and report you. You would then be considered to have committed a hit and run.

People saying she didn’t check READ THE OP where she admitted she didn’t check.

I used to work in motor insurance claims and know about liability. I can’t cite case law so it’s possible times have moved on, but the Highway Code is clear about overtaking by junctions.

Yes

but people are cherry picking rule 163

instead of showing it all

which states if a vehicle is indicating right - don’t overtake in the right

Rule 163
Overtake only when it is safe and legal to do so. You should

• not get too close to the vehicle you intend to overtake
• use your mirrors, signal when it is safe to do so, take a quick sideways glance if necessary into the blind spot area and then start to move out
• not assume that you can simply follow a vehicle ahead which is overtaking; there may only be enough room for one vehicle
• move quickly past the vehicle you are overtaking, once you have started to overtake. Allow plenty of room. Move back to the left as soon as you can but do not cut in
• take extra care at night and in poor visibility when it is harder to judge speed and distance
• give way to oncoming vehicles before passing parked vehicles or other obstructions on your side of the road

• only overtake on the left if the vehicle in front is signalling to turn right, and there is room to do so
• stay in your lane if traffic is moving slowly in queues. If the queue on your right is moving more slowly than you are, you may pass on the left. Cyclists may pass slower moving or stationary traffic on their right or leftand should proceed with caution as the driver may not be able to see you. Be careful about doing so, particularly on the approach to junctions, and especially when deciding whether it is safe to pass lorries or other large vehicles.
• give motorcyclists, cyclists and horse riders and horse drawn vehicles at least as much room as you would when overtaking a car (see Rules 211 to 215). As a guide:
• leave at least 1.5 metres when overtaking cyclists at speeds of up to 30mph, and give them more space when overtaking at higher speeds
• pass horse riders and horse-drawn vehicles at speeds under 10 mph and allow at least 2 metres of space
• allow at least 2 metres of space and keep to a low speed when passing a pedestrian who is walking in the road (for example, where there is no pavement)
• take extra care and give more space when overtaking motorcyclists, cyclists, horse riders, horse drawn vehicles and pedestrians in bad weather (including high winds) and at night
• you should wait behind the motorcyclist, cyclist, horse rider, horse drawn vehicle or pedestrian and not overtake if it is unsafe or not possible to meet these clearances.

And quoted rule 167

DO NOT overtake where you might come into conflict with other road users. For example

• approaching or at a road junction on either side of the road
• where the road narrows
• when approaching a school crossing patrol
• on the approach to crossing facilities
• where a vehicle ahead is slowing to stop for a pedestrian that is crossing from a pedestrian island (see Rule 165)
• between the kerb and a bus or tram when it is at a stop
• where traffic is queuing at junctions or road works
• when you would force another road user to swerve or slow down
• at a level crossing
• when a road user is indicating right, even if you believe the signal should have been cancelled. Do not take a risk; wait for the signal to be cancelled
• stay behind if you are following a cyclist approaching a roundabout or junction, and you intend to turn left. Do not cut across cyclists going ahead, including those using cycle lanes and cycle tracks (see Rule H3)
• stay behind if you are following a horse rider or horse drawn vehicle approaching a roundabout or junction, and you intend to turn left. Do not cut across a horse rider or horse drawn vehicle going ahead
• when a tram is standing at a kerbside tram stop and there is no clearly marked passing lane for other traffic.

What side of the central line was the cyclist? If they had crossed the central line then you essentially hit a cyclist travelling down the road in the wrong direction.

I’m a keen cyclist as well as a driver, and the idea that I might be liable for some idiot suddenly overtaking me in my car as I’m on the very brink of turning right gives me the chills.

That won’t make anyone feel better if they seriously hurt or kill someone.

Always check your mirrors immediately before turning OP. Sounds like you got a real fright, I hope you feel better soon.

There was a similar case recently but a motorcycle not a bike. Fault was found against the turning car even though it was indicating. Clear dashcam footage from the motorbike.

Because legally a vehicle (inc a bike) is allowed to overtake slower traffic on the opposite side of the road. At that point they are the established vehicle and the car turning right is the one crossing their path and therefore the legal onus is on the car to make sure they can safely turn.

I get that feels a bit unfair and as a cyclist (as well as a driver) I think it’s an unsafe manoeuvre by the cyclist, especially when car is indicating (can only assume they didn’t see the indicator).

But if you’d killed him OP you’d be facing some serious charges. Death by careless driving at least. If the cyclist had stopped and claimed for damages it would be your insurance paying out. You are very lucky it wasn’t more serious.

Yes. Might not be clever. But legally once they’ve started overtaking they are the established vehicle going straight on. The turning car is crossing their path and the onus is on the car to check it’s safe to make the turn.

I know you're reluctant to hear it, but yes you were in the wrong. They were a silly twat, but it's on you to check your mirror before manoeuvring.

Completely agree. The only time i turn my shoulder/head and look with my entire head turned in the opposite direction to which my car is travelling is when pulling away from a road or on slip road.

It takes a frightening about of time to check your blind spot like that and it only takes nano seconds for the vehicle in front to brake suddenly....

....while your head is literally turned in completely the opposite direction.

The blind spot check has its place but that in itself carries risks.

Don't @ me about leaving a safe breaking distance either. Safe braking distance is great - if your head is facing forwards.

Hige horrific accident like the millions of deaths from cars over the last 100 years? That hasnt stopped their popularity. Thousands of people hire lime bikes and other brands all over the world with out incident

Well yes technically it was your fault but cyclists do the stupidest things and I always feel like it’s a matter of time. Round here they are always squeezing up the inside of you. I nearly took one out the other day when I was turning left in slow traffic and one appeared out of nowhere squeezing up the small gap on the inside at speed. Never wearing bright clothing either. You really need to have your wits and expect the unexpected.

Is this the same case I linked to earlier from 2003where the motorcyclist had his leg amputated? Where the judge deemed it 50:50 fault of each

Private car ownership is going down in cities like london, as people find other ways to get around. Perhaps its time to stop driving in london op

When cars are banned throughout London I am sure she will.

Until then....

AIBU is abbsolutely insane.

Cars are not banned but they are discouraged. Absolutely insane driving through london if you dont need to.

Define "need".

Careful now - it will be different for everyone and your opinion isnt necessarily the correct opinion to end all opinions.

Cars are discouraged but permitted, sometimes for a fee. So OP is not unreasonable driving one if she feels the need.

If you knocked a cyclist off his bike then yes, you are clearly in the wrong.

But there is regulation around cars and motorbikes. you need a license etc, and MOT, etc.

A lime bike weights 40kg and is power assisted to 15.5mph. anyone with a phone can jump on one and off they go. they don't own the thing so don't give a damn how they ride it and if they damage it and by implication themselves or others. Go visit the trauma clinic at the Royal Free and speak to the clinicians there - LB Leg after LB leg. Lime have a $50mm provision in their accounts in anticipation of a class action. Lime IPOed in July, their share price now is just below where it listed and falling. All backed by Uber. Ultimately the public will demand some regulation within this sector.

I did understand that, the point I'm making is that checking often doesn't help. Lime bikes are so fast, often in the hands of completely inexperienced road users, you check once, twice and three time and still the LB will arrive from nowhere in nanoseconds.

In busy urban settings it's almost impossible to pick up LB carving through the traffic at a rate of knots.

a motorcyclist or pedal cyclist may well filter down the centre of the carriageway but they will approach a vehicle turning right from behind at a sensible speed, look for eye contact, recognise what's happening with oncoming traffic, defensive skills learnt over many years of experience.

The LB rider often seems to think they are Luke Skywalker in an X Wing dodging Tie Fighters, and this mistaken confidence all stems from the rapid acceleration and easy speed of the hired bike they pilot. It's utter madness.