Can they cut DD’s pay?

[Cantstopeatingjaffacakes]

Probably going to be a long one so I apologise in advance…..

DD17 works two days a week on a zero hour contract at a local retreat centre as assistant housekeeper. The centre is rural and about 20 mins drive from us from us and relies on mums taxi and she pays me petrol money.

When she was hired they told her it would be at the adult minimum wage and she has been paid that so far.

A new manager has come in and realised that she is being paid above the NW for her age group and has emailed to say that from first of January her hourly pay will drop (and adding thats only if they offer her shifts).

Can they do that? DD turned down work in our local town because of the pay and is really upset that she could have saved herself (and me) a lot of stress getting there and back if she had known.

Locally all the part time jobs have been filled and she’s hesitant to look for Christmas work in case they don’t keep her on.

The new manager wants to talk to her when she’s there for her next shift and she’s not sure what to say.

Sorry - please ignore vote, I didn’t realise it had created one.

Although she’s zero hours, has she not got anything in writing/contract that mentions rate of pay?

They typically cannot do that without her consent to a contract change

She can phone Acas for free advice.

In reality if she leaves for another job she will probably be paid at the minimum wage for her age group so may not gain much by leaving. If she likes the job and she’s getting enough shifts then is it worth trying to find another job?

If she doesn’t consent to the change presumably they’ll just stop offering shifts?

No idea on the legalities it agree phoning ACAS to understand all her options is probably the best idea

They can do what they like if nothing is contracted. She can threaten to leave but if she's worked there a while she should know if it's feasible for them to drop her hours or if she is required.

My DS was treated appallingly in retail on a one month rolling contract so they basically gave him the job for a busy period and then gave a month's notice when they knew the busy time was about to end. They had no reason to 'fire' him, in fact he gave his all, but he felt like he had been kicked out. It's pretty vicious out there.

This happened to me when I was a christmas temp who was taken on permanently - my pay dropped right down as I was only 16. I thought about what to do, and identified a manager i could talk to. I listed the reasons why I thought the higher wage was reasonable (eg: if we took new staff on I'd be training them, my standard of work etc) and they agreed to pay me the higher rate.

I wouldn't mention anything about transport, or anything emotive, just all the positives she brings to the role.

I appreciate this was 20 odd years ago and things have changed though!

If she doesn't accept it they'll just not offer her any hours. With zero hours the power is all with the employer.

Acas would be a good place to go, but don't expect anything positive.

I suggest talking to ACAS too, but my recollection is it’s legal to cut pay if it’s from a date in the future, and only illegal if they try to pay you less than agreed for work already done. If she carries on working from January she will be de facto accepting the new terms offered from then on, as she’s been notified about them in advance. She can avoid the pay cut by not accepting the new terms and leaving.

How long until her birthday and her pay going up automatically?

Thanks all. You’ve confirmed what I thought, I’ll talk to her and suggest she stays until she’s found something.

Not for another year, she’s a September baby.

Yes they can as long as they give her notice. Thry🏃‍♀️ might also employ someone cheaper when she hits 18.

In reality if she's on a zero hours contract then fighting it will just result in them not allocating her any shifts. Is she experienced and skilled sufficiently that she'd do the job better than any other 17yo they might be able to recruit? The only thing she can do is politely turn down any shifts offered after January saying that she is not willing to do the same work for lower pay, and she'll be happy to accept shifts again after her 18th birthday unless they choose to review the policy of paying her less. If it's easy for them to recruit a replacement then they'll shrug and say OK and she doesn't have a job. If she's actually worth the little bit extra she may find they choose to pay her properly.

Getting upset is understandable but irrelevant. Employers don't make decisions on the basis of someone being upset. They make decisions on the basis of whether it's cheaper to adapt their policies to be compatible with the self-respect of the people they want to employ or whether they want to employ people whose self-respect is compatible with their policies. Recruiting and training someone new may be more expensive than paying your DD in line with her self-respect if she can tough it out.

I’d apply like crazy for stuff locally and see if she gets any call backs. Presumably if she gets something else that’s paying the same rate but is easier to get to then that’s a win. If she gets a few call backs I’d be tempted to risk it with the current employer and push back that she’s working at the same rate as other members of the team so deserves to be paid the same

The next job she gets would probably be minimum wage too so she might as well stay where she is. Do you really need to charge her petrol money though?

She needs to calmly say that it is unfair that she was offered the job on one set of terms and now they are changing it. Ultimately they can give her no shifts but she should (again calmly) point out she is trained up, does a good job and therefore a better choice than looking for someone new especially at this busy time.

As well as what’s been advised up thread I’d also sort some first aid etc courses out for her and tell her to advertise herself as a local babysitter.
A 17 year old girl who’s got that as well as experience of working would get far more work round here than in a zero hours job.

What does her contract say? National minimum wage or an amount?

Your daughter should try and explain her value and why she was given the higher wage. Already trained in the job, hardworking, and enthusiastic, if they replace her with a lower wage person they don’t know what they are getting ‘time to train’ ‘commitment to stay’ etc. whereas your daughter can reinforce her commitment to stay and provide flexibilitt, but if they reduce her wage it may become untenable to cover the transport costs to /from work. If they have to pay her the lower wage because of wage equality then can they make her whole by covering transport expenses.

I agree with this. What a shitty thing to do to her.

Who runs the retreat centre? If it is someone who is supposed to be nice, like some religious people, I would consider taking it to the board or whoever runs the centre. This is terrible behaviour. Even better if she can evidence her good work. However, she'll have to weigh that up with how much fun it would be to stay there having outsmarted her boss if she's successful.

I charge her £10 a month which is half of what it costs me to get her there and back.

It’s places like this that are the first to complain that young people don’t want to work hard anymore. If I were treated like this I’d struggle to give two shits about the quality of my work either, to be honest. Sorry this has happened to your daughter, OP. Young people are not well-protected in work and are frequently exploited precisely because they can be employed for pittance. Very demoralising.

Are you able to forego the £10? It might be a nice gesture to improve her morale under the circumstances.