To be at the end of my tether with DD's room?

[UndertheCedartree]

My 14yo DD has ADHD & Autism and really struggles with keeping her room tidy. But she hstes it if I go in and touch anything so I'm at a loss as to how to help her. It is just eso cluttered, messy and unorganised it is impossible for it to be cleaned properly. Has anyone got any experience of this and how to move forward?

If she's leaving cups and plates under her bed, for example, I would definitely go in and remove them, whether she likes it or not, because they aren't her things. If she's also refusing to wash her sheets, I would also insist. These are non- negotiable, like wearing a seat belt or holding hands when crossing the road. The other stuff might need a bit of give and take. However, you are her parent and, ADHD and autism or not, you shouldn't be beaten down.

I know she needs to learn...but she isn't...hence me looking for other ideas.

I just shut the door on my teens' bedrooms and left them to it. It sorted itself out when they started bringing girls home.

I'm not beaten down, it's more about protecting her mental health.

She does having friends over...it doesn't seem to motivate her to clean, though!

I reckon she probably needs support to get it to a level where it's OK for you, and clear boundaries/guidelines of what you're OK with, and it would probably be best if this is not sprung on her, but she has a bit of time to get used to the idea.

So I reckon you could start planting seeds about wanting to help her do a proper sort out in her room and set a date for this, which is far enough away that it won't feel like a terrifying imposition. Then make it clear she will retain creative control, but your hard lines are [food/damage to carpets/avoiding damp/whatever they are]. But that you will help her because you know it's a lot to expect her to manage on her own.

I think it would also help if you have a framework for a plan which is clear in terms of steps, but flexible in terms of what happens within each step, and also let her know this in advance. The steps could be things like 1. Sketch out ideas/troubleshoot problem areas, 2. Take out trash / remove things temporarily, 3. Deep clean floors/walls/repaint. 4. Put furniture back/Ikea trip for anything that could be useful. 5. Put wanted things back in. 6. Deal with whatever is left over.

You might have a sense already about whether it would be best to deliver the whole thing in one go (e.g. printout with the date, the hard lines and offer of support, plus the steps) or whether it would be best to drip drip first the idea of you struggling with the hard line things, or her struggling to manage to sort it out on her own, or just offers of support without time pressure, and then only later present the bits of the plan as "This is something I thought might help us when we go through your room, have a look and let me know what you think later, not now."

Does she like things like Stacey's Sort Your Life Out - could you watch some of that with her and then joke about wanting to do it on her room or how you wish someone would help you do it for your house, and/or explicitly suggest doing a sort of mini version of this on her room, if you have a large space you could lay out her things.

It might also help to look at things like Clutterbug - she is fab for ADHD as she has it so refers to this a lot, but she basically divides people into micro vs macro organisers (ie, do you have the patience to put things away in a detailed way or do you tend to realistically shove things in piles/drawers?) and also visual vs hidden (ie, do you want everything on display because you'll forget it exists or get joy from seeing all of it, or do you need everything hidden for the calm/minimalist look?) then she explains why if you're trying to follow advice meant for the opposite organising type, how it will go wrong and what to do instead.

I also think the Ross Greene approach is fab for figuring out realistic solutions to problems - the combo of where's your (mum) hard line, and what's getting in their (DC) way is great. It can take some practice first of all to not jump in immediately with solutions, also for both of you to trust the process but it can be a useful format.

So let him deal with it. (I'd actually just reinstate the food ban - if she behaves like a child treat her like one.)

Untidiness/dirty sheets, I'd shut the door and ignore.

I think as an ADHD messy person I can explain this a bit.

Often what looks like a mess, I do have a rough map of in my head and I know where things are because I have a sort of "story" of how everything got there, so I can usually find things by working through them methodically, unless I'm in a complete panic last minute late rush. When things get moved, it disturbs the story and now I don't know where anything is. My memory is bad when it comes to big picture, but it is great when it comes to strings that are linked together, so when I can follow a trail/pile down then I'm not lost. But if somebody has "helpfully" put things into piles which are nothing to do with my (admittedly unhinged) mental filing system, it destroys all the strings so I lose everything.

In addition I have had things where I find a random box DH has tidied away some time, and it will have an item in it which I had been wondering where it had gone multiple times since MONTHS ago but each time I would wonder where it was I would forget by the time I saw him to ask and it would be a repeated cycle. Now whether he ever mentioned it to me in the first place is completely debateable. He generally says he did, but I can never remember these conversations. I think possibly what happens is that he says "I've tidied up some things from the kitchen into this box" and that doesn't get updated in my mental map/story of Tuesday three weeks ago where in the kitchen, I emptied a handbag containing my headphones, two receipts, some toys from the DC and a lip balm, because I'm not thinking of those things as having been in the kitchen, I'm thinking of them having been emptied on the day that I needed the bag for a night out. His assumption is that if the things are important, I'll go and empty the box and put them away but I have probably forgotten about the box a few seconds after he mentioned it, had no idea what would have been in it, and because the kitchen counter looks like a kitchen counter (ie, unremarkable), I've forgotten that the items ever were on it. It's only when I can't find a lip salve that I'm thinking oh hang on, there was one in that bag when I emptied it, where was that? I can't find it, because it's no longer there, DH can't remember tidying it up, because it was probably several weeks ago. So when I eventually find the box I feel annoyed like these items have been hidden from me deliberately.

Secondly I have frequently had things thrown away by somebody trying to be helpful because they genuinely look like rubbish. I can see as an adult why someone would throw things away, because a random scribbled on and half scrunched up piece of paper doesn't look important, but often I do write important things on bits of paper like that (or stim/fidget with important bits of paper, making them look like rubbish). Or I was saving that bit of packaging for some reason or other. Or there is a box/bag from some previous attempt to tidy up, which contains both rubbish and also important things I don't want thrown away. So knowing that the person meant well doesn't prevent me from feeling panicked and angry/upset that the important thing was lost. And as a teenager I probably did feel a bit like WTF I never even asked you to tidy up, stop!

And as a teenager she might also have private stuff but be a bit lax with remembering to cover it up and hate the idea that you might accidentally come across it (even if you wouldn't read e.g. a diary/notes from friends etc)

Well can't you tell her that having an infestation of mice in the house upsets you and everyone else living there??

I understand she has SN but you have other family members to think about here.

Her getting upset will last nowhere near as long as a mouse or insect infestation.

Allowing food is the big issue, that will have to stop.
There can be a few reasons why she's struggling depending how her autism and adhd present for her. The idea that someone else could at any time go in change everything is anxiety inducing for someone that needs routine and familiarity. ADhd can sometimes be a challenge in that the memories are in the actual thing ( i dont fully understand the basis of this myself, I think its around the idea of object permanence, and without the object there's a difficulty in recalling the memories or experience ?) so even if its a broken item or something not used there's a struggle to let go and can look like or become hoarding. Putting stuff away is part of the executive function issue, plus things away in cupboards or boxes dont really exist in the adhd brain ( object permanance again I think), having them out on display(albeit all over the floor) means you know what you have and where it isIf you could get to the bottom of what specifically she is struggling with maybe together ye could find storage and a routine that will work.

Admittedly mine is NT but I work with children who have ALN and they still
have to learn to adhere to rules - it won't help
in the long run to shut the door and ignore!
I've told mine that there are non negotiables / food/plates must be removed every day, sheets changed regularly (not as often as I'd like but more frequently than she would want) and dirty clothes put in the wash. The rest can wait until she has a burst of desire to blitz.
ND or not, it might be her room but it's your house and no one wants mice! If she can accept rules about behaviour at school, she can accept some at home about basic hygiene.
I've said to mine that either she does the above or I do, but it's getting done. She doesn't want me in there, so she's reluctantly doing it.
We've had some bloody awful rows about it though.

Stop allowing food and drinks in there for a start. Have consequences for not keeping it to a basic standard, no wifi, no phone. Sounds like you need to get tough to help her in the long run.

Just leave it messy.

It's not about mess.

It's about infesting the house with mice and very probably cockroaches eventually.

Yes with rotting food that is attracting mice.
Fabulous idea!

Her anxiety is real but it still needs to be managed. It is not acceptable to live in filth , expect others to put up with it etc because she has these issues. She will have these issues all her life so needs to learn some coping mechanisms. So you need to say things like “ I understand you feel anxious but we need to make a small start. “ Get her to suggest where you start. Agree breaks e.g. clean for 10 minutes at a time or whatever. But tell her that not doing it isnt an option.

Ban the food but leave her to her mess.

So deal with the food.

We had this and it turned out that the issue was object perminance. Our daughter couldnt remember where stuff was or even that it existed if she couldnt see it so it all ended up on the floor. We have loads s of shelves now so everything is on view and it has mostly fixed it. Her room getsa bit messy but only normal level messy not ankle deep carnage.

No more food in the bedroom, you should also go in and clean as it is a health risk to others in the home. She has to learn to regulate and consider others. This is how life is isn't it? We all have to live in this world, hopefully kindly and with consideration.

Have you tried mirroring, IE you do it together, usually once I start with mine she'll get on a hyper focus and blitz it.

Then I would go in every single day and clean it. Probably when she’s elsewhere or at school.

i wouldn’t just close the door on a room in my home that was unsanitary.!she clearly needs support with it so id be offering her a choice. She can clean her room alongside you or you will do it when she’s not around

there is no other choice really

My daughter has asd and is a messy sod and she's got the smallest room in the house.
We've got her a kalax unit which has helped her organise her stuff (well me as she got overwhelmed putting stuff away) I find breaking things down into small tasks as tidy ur room just sends her head in a spin.
We have a no food rule upstairs for all of our children, get caught loose time on phones

When i call mine down for dinner, I hear their door open and shout to bring down anything for the dishwasher.
Then at the weekend , pre warned, ie after lunch we are going to tidy your room. I will go in with a bin bag, he will put rubish in then I will take the bin bag to his brothers room and bathroom etc, while he takes down any plates/cups, he will bring the hoover up, put anything in the wash basket, then I will hoover and dust.
If its done weekly , takes 15 mins.
But to be fair mine dont have much stuff, no makeup, jewelry etc.

I know some will say , he should be doing it him self, and he is capable but I pick my battles.

I may have to remind them if they dont do their rooms when asked they will have to stop taking food upstairs.

Once a week: I picked up all the dirty laundry and washed it etc. including the laundry actually in the bed, under bed, down side of bed between wall and bed. I cleared floor and surfaces into a tub. Throw anything obviously rubbish. Full bedding change including mattress cover etc. vacuumed, wiped all surfaces and skirting boards. Cleaned windows and mirrors. Put tub of debris back for offspring to arrange as wanted (ie floor). Put clean laundry away (essential otherwise it goes back on floor and is mixed up with dirty laundry) Close door. Retreat. It’s now a termly uni job but miraculously, in second year, offspring has stepped up.