Year 7 (who is very good at maths) has been put in the bottom sets.

[ReevesJeeves]

My DD has always been very good at Maths. In Year 6, she achieved Greater Depth in her Maths SATS (achieving 115/120). Since joining Year 7, she has been in a mixed ability Maths Set. In the work that has been sent home from Secondary and that is set on Sparx, she is getting 80% - 90% correct, independently.

We have just had a letter home today, advising that Maths will be set after half term, and my DD will be in Set 5 of 6! The letter also explains that she has been assessed as finding Maths challenging and not to worry about sets, every child will be assisted individually. AIBU to think the school doesn’t know my DD at all, and to send an email querying how they came to this decision? I fail to see how she can now be finding maths challenging and in Set 5 of 6, having achieved 115/120 in her SATS only months ago. Maths has always been a subject she has excelled in, right down to her KS1 Times Tables test where she scored 100%. BTW this is not a selective school or grammar, it’s mainstream state, so it’s not as though the department will be awash with Maths geniuses (in the least offensive way). I also don’t want to appear as a trouble maker or someone the school will be fed up with, but I think this needs to be questioned to find out what has gone wrong so to speak.

My husband thinks I shouldn’t say anything as the school will just think I’m a neurotic mum, I disagree and I think it needs to be dealt with and questions asked pronto - something has clearly gone drastically wrong either with the teachers assessment of DD or in the way DD is presenting herself in class?!

Yes chase it up OP because this kind of setting at this age (especially in the case of girls) could well entrench a "maths is not my thing" mentality in your DD, veering her away from potentially reaching her potential in maths and, by extension, other STEM subjects (if this is her inclination). Schools will always do frame setting 'children working at their individual pace' etc etc - and, of course, there is truth in this - but students do categorise themselves according to the set they are put in.

I'd be asking the Head of Maths how this was determined. My DC achieved 115 but wasn't in a high set for maths at secondary either. However the fact they've referred to sets 4-6 as bottom has me concerned. 80-90% for homework is okay but it isn't exceptional. I tutor a student who is doing lower than expected for Maths but usually scores 95% or more for homework.

If you genuinely feel your DD is capable of 6-9 in maths then you need to flag this. I'd anticipate Set 1 being 7-9, Set 2 5-7, Sets 3 and 4 4-6 Set 5 3-4 and Set 6 1-3 (Functional Skills maths).

Had simulat with my DC some years back but in English.Queried with the teacher at parents evening why they had gone from a probable A/A* to a C/D in mocks and was being moved down a set. I was told I was overreacting! I asked what we could do to get their grade back up and again was told not to worry! Spoke to the head about changing teachers as we seemed to be getting nowhere. Turns out I was not the only parent with a problem and it was discovered that the teacher had spent a whole term on the wrong syllabus, this in the run up to GCSE exams!!!! Teacher decided to "retire" not long after and DC got their original projected grades. Sometimes mistakes are made 🤔

You'd hope so, but I moved schools, had been in set 2, new school decided to put me in 4 to see how I went and said they'd move me up if appropriate, and they never did despite the fact I was flying through all the work in class and doing all the homework in the lessons as well and getting excellent marks because I found it all so easy.

Fortunately I moved back to my previous school.

I'd ring them up and ask to speak to the maths teacher or whoever's in charge of the sets, rather than waiting for an email reply. Just so you're not spending the whole half term ruminating.
It could very well be a simple clerical error.
When I was at school I was one of the best in my year at Biology, but I was also extremely shy, hated participating in class, and rarely did any homework. In years 9-11 I had a biology teacher who decided I was rubbish at biology based on my lack of class participation and low homework results rather than my actual test results (every time I got a good result in a class test, SATs or mock GCSEs, she put it down to luck, a sympathetic marker, or insinuated I had been copying from my neighbour). I left with an A*. So it could be that they're judging her based on some other criteria rather than her actual abilities...

Absolutely DO NOT listen to your husband!! Whatever the reason for putting her in 5th set, it's a massive cause for concern! She's either struggling massively, in which case it needs addressing urgently, as a drop that steep can only have come from something serious (including mental health concerns, bullying, not adjusting well to the new school); or (much more likely from everything you've said) she's been put in the wrong set, in which case she'll spend the next couple of terms bored out of her absolute mind, as well as getting really far behind, missing out on learning the higher-level concepts she should be learning, which will make it harder when they eventually move her back up.

Just ring them and say you'd like to talk to them because you're very concerned that she's been put in set 5 when she previously was at greater depth, and seems to be getting good scores in her homework, so you wanted to check if there had been a mistake, and if not, you'd like to discuss whether something else is wrong because it's such a dramatic drop that you're very concerned about what has caused it.

I had been put in the bottom set for maths based on my test results at the end of year 7. When my mother challenged this they relooked at the paper and I’d dropped all the points for showing your working and just put down all the right answers. They moved me straight into the top set with strict instructions to show my working in future.

I'm absolutely not defending this and it is not my view but I work in education and have a big focus on KS2-KS3 transition. It's worth knowing that SATs are regarded as largely worthless in many secondary settings and are ignored as far as possible in favour of internal baseline testing or CATs. It's quite possible that OP's DD's SATs result has not factored into this decision at all - although if she has a very common name then an admin error is highly likely.

Does the school have form for putting the high achieving pupils into the classes with low achieving pupils " to make it fair for the lower achiever"

The thing is, it’s not just her SATS. It’s her results throughout primary school and the work she’s been doing so far - they did a test which the teacher said DD had done well on and was easy topics - factors, multiples, prime numbers etc. All of which DD had already covered at primary school and knows well.

I also don’t believe it’s possible to get 115 on the SATS without natural aptitude - it consists of 3 papers. She also got Greater Depth in English so is a good all rounder.

I followed up my email with a request for a phone call and haven’t heard anything, given the school closes for half term in 30 minutes I’m not holding out much hope. I think they time it deliberately with these sets / reports so that parents can’t complain right at the end of the half term and they have 2 weeks to stew or sit on the information. If they don’t phone me back today I’ll be going to reception first thing when they go back after half term and saying I need to hear back from the maths teacher that day.

I wouldn’t be emailing. I would be calling them several times until they reply to you.

I know you have already done it OP, but just to add to the people saying absolutely right to query it. And I say that as the daughter of a pushy mum who would demand a meeting with the headmistress every time I was put in set 2 of 5, because I wasn't in set 1. It was mortifying.. and there really was no need for the pushiness, because set 2 was just where I deserved to be. But at no point did I ever feel I was treated differently by the teachers because of my mum's pushiness.

In your situation it's not pushy at all, it is advocating for your child - and it really does seem like a mistake has been made.. and if it isn't them something drastic has changed in your daughter's performance in class and that needs to be addressed anyway.

Definitely don't stew on it over the holidays, but go in there first thing after half term to get this resolved.

Your DH reminds me of my DH and his family, very non-confrontational, don't want to make a fuss.... it's maddening.. if you won't advocate for your own child, who will?

I phoned this morning following my email asking for a phone call back which they said would happened today.

Make an appointment to see the head of year it sounds like a mistake. You are not being neurotic at all. My youngest is in year 13 and if I am concerned about anything I still email them. Your her mum and you know she is about to go in the wrong set.

Ring again! Ask to hold til head of year or someone in SLT can talk.

Sure, and it does seem like this was some kind of admin error ultimately...but my point is, sets don't necessarily stay fixed. All the sets in my DS's school got rejigged over years 7/8/9 I think. As it was, my DS got a 9 in GCSE in the end.

Of course OP should follow up with the school, but because the OPs DC is only in year 7, being in the 'wrong' set at the very beginning isn't necessarily a disaster in the grand scheme of things.

If tomorrow is an Inset day, the teachets will be working.

They cant ring in lesson time, they are teaching.

Is tomorrow an inset day?

That’s not going to happen in a setted maths class where the OP has been told her DD needs extra support.

My DS got a low maths score when he was in year 7. He came home in tears as he was certain he did really well.
I emailed the school to ask for a copy of papers, both my sons answers and the correct answers.
The following day the papers were handed out in class so the students could see where they went wrong.
Turns out the teacher had added the sections up incorrectly. Luckily my son noticed and challenged the teacher during class. The teacher apologised and said he had marked my sons paper late at night when he was tired.
Needless to say my son always checks the papers now when they are handed out.

I also don’t believe it’s possible to get 115 on the SATS without natural aptitude - it consists of 3 papers. She also got Greater Depth in English so is a good all rounder.

It's not natural aptitude necessarily ... a lot of primary schools, including ours, to a lot of SATS mocks and work very hard on maths reasoning papers. They're not 'difficult' papers, it is just the entirety of the primary school curriculum, usually one question from each area of study on the reasoning papers.

A child who is struggling with maths (as the school has suggested my daughter is), and in set 5 of 6 in a state comprehensive would not get 115 as a scaled score on their maths SATS.

Exactly, you know your own daughter.

I do agree you should follow up after half term if you havent heard anything.

That said, I think some posters are being so unrealistic in their expectations of time scales for responses from teachers. No doubt lots of parents quibble their children's sets; some, like you, have very valid grounds, others will be a lot more marginal (e.g. why set 2 and not set 1?)

So say the maths teacher needs to call 5 parents back about this issue. She needs to check the position for each one and she needs to factor in that she doesn't know how long each call will last. She needs to have time to make a note of each call afterwards too. Even if she had a free period today, she might already have had work planned to do during that time. A more serious issue could arise in the meantime (e.g. safeguarding issue for a child in her form). When else is she meant to call parents? She shouldn't have to use her lunch break or start/finish beyond her normal hours. I just don't understand why so many parents think a school should deal with something immediately, when I doubt many of them would stay late at their own workplace to deal with a non-major issue. (Not saying YABU, OP, just a general comment on replies to you - and I am not a teacher!)

Why are you posting about this on a message board? Just send them a quick email to say can you check if my daughter is in the correct maths set please as she scored greater depth in her SATS. It’s obviously an admin error.

Do message them - but be prepared to not like the answer you get.

It could be an error. Set 5 does sound low, from what you've said,but I don't feel it'll be set one. The main reason I say that is 80-90% on Sparx would be set 2 or 3 in my school rather than set 1.

Keep in mind also that the school may not have taken the SAT score into account as they're unreliable for lots of reasons (kids drilled to teaching to the test, but can't operate independently/teachers doing stuff they shouldn't during exams etc...). We get kids in each year with very high SAT scores whose actual ability is nowhere near what their score would suggest. Most schools will use their own internal assessments instead where all Year 7s get brought to the hall and sit a literacy and numeracy style test (CATs) Did she sit hese? Do you know how she did in this? Often pupils score differently, as the CATs are designed differently to SATs.

The school will also have a policy on the turnaround for replies to parent communication. Ours is 48 hours, so if a parent shows up demanding a reply within the day, that'll be ignored - they'll get a reply within the published time frame.

I like the Sparx actually (I would often complete my daughter's homework myself 😂....because I wanted to re-learn it so that I could help her if needs be). Don't get me wrong she still did her homework via screenshots 🤣