Year 7 (who is very good at maths) has been put in the bottom sets.

[ReevesJeeves]

My DD has always been very good at Maths. In Year 6, she achieved Greater Depth in her Maths SATS (achieving 115/120). Since joining Year 7, she has been in a mixed ability Maths Set. In the work that has been sent home from Secondary and that is set on Sparx, she is getting 80% - 90% correct, independently.

We have just had a letter home today, advising that Maths will be set after half term, and my DD will be in Set 5 of 6! The letter also explains that she has been assessed as finding Maths challenging and not to worry about sets, every child will be assisted individually. AIBU to think the school doesn’t know my DD at all, and to send an email querying how they came to this decision? I fail to see how she can now be finding maths challenging and in Set 5 of 6, having achieved 115/120 in her SATS only months ago. Maths has always been a subject she has excelled in, right down to her KS1 Times Tables test where she scored 100%. BTW this is not a selective school or grammar, it’s mainstream state, so it’s not as though the department will be awash with Maths geniuses (in the least offensive way). I also don’t want to appear as a trouble maker or someone the school will be fed up with, but I think this needs to be questioned to find out what has gone wrong so to speak.

My husband thinks I shouldn’t say anything as the school will just think I’m a neurotic mum, I disagree and I think it needs to be dealt with and questions asked pronto - something has clearly gone drastically wrong either with the teachers assessment of DD or in the way DD is presenting herself in class?!

happened to my DD in another subject. A query (and I had to be persistent about getting to the root reason) asking why she had been set in this specific test, and what her grades / test results were relative to others, repeatedly asked, eventually led to teacher admitting a mistake, and being moved up again.

Be persistent and ask for the actual reason why, if related to tests or reslience or something like that. If they fob you off ask for the actual grade.

This could definitely be an admin error! I loved maths at school and was put in bottom set in year 7/8. I went home so upset about this (because I was such a geek!) that my sister ended up asking the head of maths about it. It turned out I had the same surname as another student and they'd switched us round. Fingers crossed it's sorted!

Definitely raise it. You have the stats from her SATs to evidence your concern. Even if they come back and provide evidence of a test with poor performance, I'd then go back and question why she is suddenly performing below her potential i.e. is it a transition issue? I'd ask if there's any additional support and also when she'll be re-tested and if there's then an opportunity to move sets. As per PP, look into getting her some additional tutoring.

I'm not a mathematician but there are some topics which were added to the post 2017 GCSE in order to distinguish the grade 9 students which are notoriously difficult and which previously were not introduced until A level, e.g. function notation, and composite and inverse functions. I can understand why it might be decided that learning some of this content does not best serve a pupil who is likely to achieve towards the lower end of the scale on the Higher paper.

So, if you are capable of a 6, you can't be taught the syllabus that is deemed to be standard of a 7?

It's kinda wild really.

That teacher absolutely is denying the child. Their chances are being limited by the teaching.

Sounds like they have got her muddled with another child - I would query it and make sure you speak to her actual maths teacher, not the head of year or anything who won’t have a clue about her maths ability!

I work in a school and this sort of thing happens more frequently than you’d think. No-one will mind you querying it at all.

They would end up with a worse result if teaching time was given over with too much grade 8/9 stuff before they have mastered grade 6/7.

I can't remember what is at grade 8/9 but for example why waste time teaching 3D trig problems to pupils who haven't mastered 2D ones yet?

(At DD's school sets overlapped so you could move up. DD1 started y7 in something like set 6 or 7 and ended up in set 3, even moving up between y10 and y11.)

(It reminds me of y6 SPaG. Total waste of time the school 'teaching' DD2 about 'fronted adverbials' when she couldn't yet do Capitals and fullstops properly. Would have been so much more beneficial to het to focus on those.)

This is the thing isn't it - if you take it at face value the question is how, as a school, have you failed so badly in the first 5 weeks of term that she's gone so far backwards?

DD2 is naturally good at maths and really struggles to show her workings. She doesn't need workings, she instinctively knows the answer. Possibly it is something along these lines <clutching at straws>

You can reasonably ask the question why they have been put in this set, but unless you are a (maths) teacher, then I would leave it alone. If she excels in set 5, they will amend this in future allocations. What do you know about other children in this particular group and her relative performance compared to them. If you demand she be resetted, then yes, you will come across as a neurotic mum

With the opposite view to your husband, I'd say it would be irresponsible to not look into what has happened here? Clearly maths is/was her strength so you need to get to the bottom of what has happened here for her sake. Either she is struggling in the new school or they have made some huge error. Hope you get some insight and good luck!

For goodness’ sake. From @ReevesJeeves’ posts, it is obvious that this is not in question. A child would not have scored so highly in the SATs without the understanding necessary for that level. She has also had a flair and enthusiasm for maths since early childhood. Why are so many people doubting @ReevesJeeves‘ knowledge of her own daughter? She has been very objective and concerned, as anyone else would be. I am joining the chorus in thinking there has been an administrative mistake somewhere and if the email is unanswered by, say, 8.30 tomorrow morning, I would be phoning the school and asking to talk to the maths teacher and/or head of department.

Just an admin error, OP. So please don’t worry. They CANNOT put her on bottom set Maths because her target for GCSE will be 8 or 9 on the basis of her SATS score. Top grade for foundation Maths is 5. So she will miss her target significantly and they will be accountable for the shortfall. Ignore your husband and get this error sorted out before half term.

Must be an admin error- raise it.
Unless all the other kids got 120/120 in SATS....

Im surprised they have been put in sets already. My son has just started in year 7. Aced his SATS but they aren’t setted until year 8. This year they are focussing on adjusting to new school routines and getting to know one another. All the classes have been split up for different lessons but not based on academic ability, it’s so they can make new friends and adjust. They have been assessed already and their last assessments are next year when they will be setted ready to go into year 8.

This happened to my child only with English, and this approach is exactly what I did since either there was an admin error that needed addressing, or their trajectory had altered dramatically in which case i also wanted to know about it.

Head of dept called me and said they could see there had been an error, and it was sorted fairly quickly. Raise it, nicely and politely of course, but do raise it.

@ReevesJeevesI’ve had the exact same problem at my Dad’s school y7. She’s at a comp, excellent at maths. She was in the lowest set - this took time to understand as they didn’t number the sets but DD could tell based on the pace of the class, the homework and the topic tests. I let it flow for a while and we got past few topic tests in which she did exceptionally well.
at this point I wrote to the school asking if they could review her placement given her scores. They’ve swiftly moved her to the top set. Looks like it was an admin error to put her there (we got a seat very late) rather than anything else.

Just want to say that there will be room for movement even if it doesn’t happen before lessons start. If nothing else there will be tests which will prove she needs to move, even if they don’t choose to act immediately.

Yeh maths is very much usually set from year 7 (mainly bc it would be impossible to teach mixed ability in secondary maths). And yes, it’s quite likely that lower sets will not learn the content needed for grades 7-9. Tbf tho that might not be evident until later than year 7 if that makes sense; but the bottom set would be covering the basics, whereas higher sets might skip past those as DC would have mastered them.

A DC who moved up to a set that would take higher would be able to catch up in year 8 or even 9 if able tho IMHO.

In MFL at KS3 I would teach the same content really to all abilities, if the class was mixed. We did set KS3 for French with one year which was helpful. We certainly went into greater depth with things like the perfect tense with the higher sets (I taught set 1, 2 and 8). We usually had enough takers for GCSE MFL to set them so I would either be teaching a group of higher or a group of foundation – so yes, the content and skills would definitely be different.

ETA @ReevesJeeves that sounds like an admin error to me so I hope it gets sorted.

Ours did tests at the start of the year out of 60 on Sparx to determine gaps. DD got 120 and then 60/60 on the Sparx test. She said some kids had gotten 110 on SATS but 40/60 on the Sparx initial test (average about 35/60)

I've already emailed our Head of Maths and I don't give a crap if I'm THAT parent. Email. Ignore your DH.

No harm in asking

Wondwr if she fluffed computer tests that schools seem fond of

I haven’t had a reply today, should I chase tomorrow? It’s their last day before half term.

I would state what you said in your OP in an email. Likely they made a mistake.

op I have now put 2 kids through secondary school and dealt with many mistakes (to put it mildly) -

what would concern me here is your husbands attitude! this is your childs education - nothing could be more important than making sure they are in the correct set.

A large secondary school will sometimes make mistakes - you unfortunately have to have eagle eyes in the state system! This is not a cosy private school where they are worried about making sure each child is treated like an individual.

Of course you can't be harassing teachers but this requires an immediate email - hi I am concerned my child is in the wrong set could we have a chat

My kids went to a HUGE secondary - and I found the teachers incredibly responsive - on the odd time I emailed in they usually called or emailed back immediatley keen to fix whatever the issue was

teachers want children to do well - and they definitely want kids who are good at stuff to do their best.

your husband needs to take control! This is really important and you need to be engaged with your childs learning.

Yes do chase it, put your mind at rest. It may be that your DD has same or similar name as a child who needs to be in set 5.

Aw I think this is likely to be a clerical error surely?

Reminds me of the time one of my high school teachers mixed me up with someone else! My mum and dad went to a parents' evening where the teacher proceeded to give them a report on a girl with the same first name as me. It was not particularly glowing and my parents were confused because I was pretty much a straight A student across the board. One of them eventually stopped him and it transpired he'd gotten us mixed up.

The funny thing was, when they sat down, the teacher said to them that he could see the resemblance between my dad and the other Wanderlust!🙈

Definitely email the school. They are doing her a great injustice by placing her in such a low set. A lot of the kids in there will just mess around, cause disruption and negatively impact her learning. Don't let that happen, definitely contact them as there has clearly been a mistake.