To be pissed off with DS’s school (long post sorry!)

[TryingNotToMakeItWorse]

I’m really pissed off with DS’s school and not sure if I’m being unreasonable or whether I need to calm down before I make things worse for him.

DS is 12 and in year 7. He has dyslexia and quite significant problems with his working memory which were picked up during an assessment last year. He’s always struggled with school and remembering instructions, getting written work done etc. He’s not a child who never does anything wrong and I know he can talk when he shouldnt but there’s a bit more to it than that.

On Friday he came home and told me he’d spent the whole day in isolation. I had absolutely no idea this was happening and was quite shocked as I thought something serious must have happened for him to be put in there all day. Apparently it was because he’d had 3 detentions in a day.

I’d had a message from school about a detention so rang them on Friday morning to ask what it was for as I assumed it was for being late earlier in the week. He’d had an orthodontist appointment and I’d completely forgotten to let the school know beforehand, so I accept that was my fault. I dropped him off late with a note explaining why and when I rang the school they agreed to cancel that detention. The message I’d received only mentioned one detention so I had no idea there were another 2 involved as well.

The other 2 were apparently for talking in 2 different lessons. DS says he was telling other pupils to stop talking to him and that he got the detention for talking back, although obviously I wasnt there so I can only go on what he’s told me. I know he’s not always an angel in class but I do think there’s a difference between deliberately disrupting a lesson and getting into trouble when he’s already struggling to manage what’s going on around him.

What has really annoyed me is finding out he was put in isolation without anyone contacting me, particularly when one of the detentions had actually been cancelled. The school say the decision had already been made based on the number he’d received and the Head of Year apparently wasnt aware that the other detention had been cancelled when she made the decision.

I rang again this morning and asked to speak to the Head of Year. She told me DS has one of the highest numbers of detentions in the year, which was news to me. Apparently I should have been called in for a meeting about this before now but nobody has contacted me about it. I knew he’d had some detentions for not doing homework and was dealing with that at home, but I wasnt aware it had got to this point.

The reason I’m particularly upset is that school know about his difficulties. He was assessed last year after years of struggling and the report explains the problems he has with memory and processing instructions. His primary school were very quick to label him naughty and lazy and it took a long time to get anyone to look properly at why he was struggling. I was determined that secondary school would be different so I contacted the SENCO before he even started there.

I had a meeting with the SENCO early in the term and we discussed putting him into a smaller teaching group for some lessons because he was finding the work difficult. They also said he’d attend a supported homework club after school as he was refusing to do some of the homework because he didnt understand it. I was happy with both of these things and thought they were being put in place.

DS has since told me he isnt in the smaller group and hasnt been going to the homework club either. I emailed the SENCO last week to ask when this was starting and only got a reply today saying the smaller group wouldnt be available until later in the term. Nobody had told me this before and I’d been under the impression that the extra support was being sorted.

When I raised this with the Head of Year she said the school has expectations about behaviour and DS still has to follow the rules. I agree with that! I’m not saying he should be allowed to do whatever he wants because he has dyslexia. But I dont understand how they’re making decisions about his behaviour without seeming to consider the difficulties we’ve already discussed with them, or why I’ve had to chase up support that was supposed to be happening.

The conversation got quite defensive and I felt like she was trying to make it all about his number of detentions rather than answer my questions about the isolation and the support. I asked to speak to the deputy head and have now got a meeting arranged for tomorrow.

I’m worried I’ve made an enemy of the Head of Year now and that DS will end up getting watched even more closely because I’ve complained. At the same time I’m really cross that he’s been punished like this and I’m only finding out afterwards, when the school have known for weeks that he needs some extra help.

I dont want to be the parent who blames the school for everything and I do expect him to behave himself, but I also dont want him going through the same thing he did at primary school where he was constantly in trouble and his confidence got worse and worse.

Am I being unreasonable to be this angry about it? And what would you actually raise with the deputy head tomorrow? I want to get somewhere with the school rather than just have an argument, but at the moment I feel like I’m going round in circles.

He was diagnosed with his learning difficulty last December.

Given that, on top of his dyslexia and his clear and obvious difficulties in a mainstream environment I have to agree with others who have said a mainstream school probably isn't for him - he certainly doesn't seem to have benefited from it in any way yet.

Hi, I have a son who is similar to yours, and english secondary schools are not designed for children who have these sorts of difficulties. Here are my top tips:

-Become your son's PA, from organising and helping him do his homework to helping him pack his bag. This will minimise behaviour points for homework, not having the right stuff etc.

--Ask the SENCO about cards.. Some schools have cards that kids can use when they are struggling or to leave the class early. Minimising behaviour points for lateness.

-For behaviour points related to disruptive behaviours, tell.your son to 'just get on with it' even if it doesnt feel fair. But do speak to SENCO or head of year about figuring out where it is best for him to sit. Front, so he is vusible to teacher, or back so he is not distracted by the kid behind him.

-Check from SENCO what information class teachers has been told about dyslexia.and processing. Has he got a passport or similar document?

Essentially, put in the work yourself, hold the school to account and hokd your DS to account. Finally, never email when you are angry.

The school aren't always going to ring each parent every time their child has a detention, yes you should be contacted about his difficulties and support but getting a detention for talking/answering back doesn't warrant a phone call home. Unfortunately he will still have behaviour expectations and you say you've accepted this but I don't think you're separating it from the SEN issues.

I’m glad you left teaching if you can’t see what they problem is here.

I feel like this falls under the "tell us you know nothing about SEN category".

Many parents would love to send their child to send their child to specialist provision, it is not available. Particularly for a child such as the ops, who doesnt have an EHCP.

3 in one day though? And a high number previously? That’s something I’d think a parent wants to be aware of.

Seems parents can’t win though. Were told we need to support the school and reinforce their messages, but apparently a kid can get 3 detentions in a day and the parent shouldn’t expect to be told that.

Is he currently on a full timetable? In both my DD’s schools children who struggle would not be expected to do all subjects and attend a ‘hub’ where they get extra help with core subjects. I’d want to talk to the school about if it when to consider reducing his timetable.

I wonder if the school expect him to be able to speak up about what he can’t understand? I imagine it would be so hard for him to speak up in class, but can he at least chat to his form teacher/guidance teacher?

Dd2 has dyslexia, and her real issue is spelling. What has helped her is some private lessons with a specialist teacher (in school hours) and ultimately moving her to a private school. I realise that might not be an option, but can you supplement at home with things like Toe by toe (boring as anything but it works) and Nessy. Would he better using a computer either typing or voice to text software? There are plenty of free touch typing games he can play at home.

OP, both schools sound like they are not doing that jobs properly, but what stood out to me is that your son is working at year 2/3 level but he's in year 7. That's going to be really difficult for the teachers to manage

I've been in a similar situation and my advice is:

Get him assessed for autism/ADHD
Apply for an EHCP yourself, now

Then either
Meet with school senco and head of year to work out a proper plan which is actually implemented and find out why these promised interventions are not in place

Don't worry about being the parent they don't like, it doesn't matter if they like you, it matters that they do right by your child

Or
Take him out and home educate (you can use tutors you don't have to do it yourself) to get him up to the level of his peers

Then you can decide whether he goes back to school or not

Personally, I did option 1 and bitterly regret not doing option 2. I now home educate my other child and can see that I should have done it for my eldest instead of fighting with the school for years.

If you want to chat, you can DM me, I'm happy to talk things through.

I’ve read the behaviour policy and thats not what it says though. It says isolation is usually for more serious behaviour such as fighting, damage to property, verbal abuse, bullying and things like that. It doesnt say 3 detentions in a day automatically means isolation.

I was a teacher, DH still is. I left and we became foster carers. Any meeting we have for our foster children we also have the backing of Social Services and it was still awful at times.
Our local comp is 'good'. All of our kids and nephews/nieces went, no issues, but none of them had learning issues / trauma.
My eyes have really been opened to how they treat children with additional needs. One of our foster children has similar issues to this young lad. School repeatedly said things were being put in place, they had an individual learning plan with how they should behave, how school would support him and if there were issues how it would be dealt with. This was rarely followed.

They regularly got detention for talking but one if the points was to ask a peer if they didn't understand. They would ask, get told off and when they said im asking for help, they'd get into trouble for answering back, or told this is not an appropriate time to ask someone. In several meetings id bring this up and id ask if the staff knew about their difficulties and was told 'they all have access to the plan but we cant guarantee they've read it!' After that I would refuse the detentions IF the school did NOT follow THEIR plan.
I did become THAT parent BUT I didn't inherently believe the kid or refuse to accept they were never wrong (they were pretty honest and would say if they were messing on etc) I ALWAYS listened to both sides before making comments etc but I did hold the school to account for what they should have been doing.
Thankfully they had an amazing HoY and a pastoral assistant who got us through to the end of y11 somehow. The senior leadership team could have taken some pointers from them.

Ok, so firstly sats these days give standardised score.

below age related expectations is called by some primaries “failing” but there’s a big spectrum between just below age related expectations and a long way below.

primary will have written to you with his full results including a scaled score. If you can find that it’ll give a clearer idea of where he is.

it sounds from what you say that the bigger issue is that he basically can’t write, and reading is way below age.

there’s no point trying to fix handwriting at this age - most people go straight to laptops. My dc used nessy typing to learn to type and typed all his work.

Nessy is aimed at children and tries to reinforce reading and the alphabet as they learn. Most adult programs are too hard for children with literacy struggles.

https://nessy.com/en-gb/shop/home-products/nessy-fingers-touch-typing/

your dc almost certainly has reading levels that are too low to access what is going on in the secondary classroom when a certain level of literacy (often referred to as being secondary ready) is expected.

most secondaries have one Senco for hundreds of students and will heavily prioritise students who need ehcps - there just isn’t the admin capacity to do them for all students who would benefit so it’s prioritised.

you are going to need to become your own dc’s advocate.

look into contacting Sen support services in your area and consider doing your own EHCP application.

in my school children like your son with an EHCP are with the rest of the school for drama/PE/music/art but have separate nurture group lessons for maths/English etc.

children like your son who don’t have an EHCP have to be in with the main class and they cope or they don’t.

By telling someone to be quiet and for not being sure what he's doing and asking about that. And that warrants a whole day in exclusion. Ok then. The school are disrupting his learning by not meeting his needs

It's not that bad. They just get all the naughty kids from across the school together in one classroom for a day rather than in their normal lessons. It's not like an individual chokey.

Ok so finding out the baseline assessments will be really important for an EHCP alongside the SATS. You can also evidence with reports from primary school and the situation at secondary school so far.

Ask school directly, do they think he can manage in a mainstream school? If yes, then what is their plan? How will they support? Do they need an EHCP to access funds to support him?

if no, you definitely need to start an EHCP needs assessment. I would do an application anyway to be honest.

Did the LA do the dyslexia / LD assessment? What were their recommendations?

@TryingNotToMakeItWorse while waiting for the needs assessment, you can ask for an individual education plan for him. This should be drawn up with the Sendco and detail exactly what they’re doing and the effect. That will be evidence for an EHCP too.

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/special_educational_needs/5484488-ehcp-support-thread-no-6?utm_campaign=thread&utm_medium=app_share you can apply for an EHCP yourself. The primary school really let you down. The secondary probably didn't have a TA to run those groups. That's the most usual reason for slow support.

DS says he was telling other pupils to stop talking to him and that he got the detention for talking back,

Talking back to the teacher? Do you know what he said? He could have said something that fits the criteria for isolation @TryingNotToMakeItWorse

Is he happy at the school socially? Friends?

@TryingNotToMakeItWorse I think it may be better it you delete this thread and ask for input on the SEN board (there is an active EHCP thread as well https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/special_educational_needs/5484488-ehcp-support-thread-no-6).

My DS has acquired brain injury, which includes processing, memory and visual/spatial awareness issues. He is also academically behind his peers and will never catch up - but he will be able to improve from his own baseline. I think that's the critical thing for schools to realise: there's no point measuring your child against a child without a processing disorder. Their progress will be different, but does not mean they cannot improve and succeed; they will just follow a different path.

Processing issues are really hard to understand, especially for a mainstream school. If you can afford it, see a private educational and/or neuro psychologist, who can recommend strategies to help make school and learning a bit easier. Also, apply for an EHCP as a matter of urgency. Your child needs one.

What happens to pupils in Ireland? How are they disciplined for extremely poor behaviour? Or are they too fragile and important?

The detentions are fully reasonable. You have no argument against them. It's not about changing your child's behaviour, it's about acting as a deterrent for the behaviour to other pupils. If he chooses to continue behaving in that way, he will continue to get detentions. Other pupils have to right to learn without their lessons being interrupted.

If your child hasn't an ECHP, he isn't actually entitled to any extra support in school outside of class. Therefore your child has no automatic entitlment to a homework club, or any additional support with homework. I'd bet here they had been hoping to offer a club, but don't have funding or available teacher hours for it, and they couldn't find staff who were willing to do it for free. Or perhaps they have limited places and actually had pupils with greater needs than your DS who took them all.

You could email teachers individually, explain that he's struggling in their subject, and ask them to understand if homework isn't fully completed or done to a high standard, or even to give slightly more basic homework if he struggles. This is probably the only thing the school should be doing, if they're not doing so already.

However it's mainly going to be about what you and DP are doing to support your DS at home. Do you monitor what homework he gets? Do you sit and help him with it? If you won't do this with your own child, you can't expect school staff to volunteer to do so for lots of children for free.

Even without an EHCP, the school must make their best endeavours to meet DS’s SEN (in and out of class) as per the Children and Families Act 2014, and they must make reasonable adjustments as per the Equality Act 2010.

I have been in this position with both my DC and fought tooth and nail to get them support...in primary.

He did something wrong. So he got punished.
Yes the school needs to support him but it's not their fault if he's telling fibs or omitting to tell you how many detentions he had.

You really do come off like you want to battle the school over him being disciplined. It's not doing him any favours you getting angry with them.

I think it's more along the right lines than your advice of "just tell your son to get on with it" re behaviour issues in school. 🤔 And why do you assume "not mainstream" means "sending him somewhere" - OP may consider homeschooling or online specialist programmes or a hybrid approach.

Are you sure mainstream is right for him if he got a learning disability? Unless there is a special hub with send teacher I don't think he will benefit from mainstream at all. He was already behind in subjects in primary you said and secondary will just widen that gap. I feel sorry for him because he will lose all confidence in himself. I have gone through exactly the same with my autistic ds with very mild learning disability and he's doing so much better now in Send vocational training.