To be pissed off with DS’s school (long post sorry!)

[TryingNotToMakeItWorse]

I’m really pissed off with DS’s school and not sure if I’m being unreasonable or whether I need to calm down before I make things worse for him.

DS is 12 and in year 7. He has dyslexia and quite significant problems with his working memory which were picked up during an assessment last year. He’s always struggled with school and remembering instructions, getting written work done etc. He’s not a child who never does anything wrong and I know he can talk when he shouldnt but there’s a bit more to it than that.

On Friday he came home and told me he’d spent the whole day in isolation. I had absolutely no idea this was happening and was quite shocked as I thought something serious must have happened for him to be put in there all day. Apparently it was because he’d had 3 detentions in a day.

I’d had a message from school about a detention so rang them on Friday morning to ask what it was for as I assumed it was for being late earlier in the week. He’d had an orthodontist appointment and I’d completely forgotten to let the school know beforehand, so I accept that was my fault. I dropped him off late with a note explaining why and when I rang the school they agreed to cancel that detention. The message I’d received only mentioned one detention so I had no idea there were another 2 involved as well.

The other 2 were apparently for talking in 2 different lessons. DS says he was telling other pupils to stop talking to him and that he got the detention for talking back, although obviously I wasnt there so I can only go on what he’s told me. I know he’s not always an angel in class but I do think there’s a difference between deliberately disrupting a lesson and getting into trouble when he’s already struggling to manage what’s going on around him.

What has really annoyed me is finding out he was put in isolation without anyone contacting me, particularly when one of the detentions had actually been cancelled. The school say the decision had already been made based on the number he’d received and the Head of Year apparently wasnt aware that the other detention had been cancelled when she made the decision.

I rang again this morning and asked to speak to the Head of Year. She told me DS has one of the highest numbers of detentions in the year, which was news to me. Apparently I should have been called in for a meeting about this before now but nobody has contacted me about it. I knew he’d had some detentions for not doing homework and was dealing with that at home, but I wasnt aware it had got to this point.

The reason I’m particularly upset is that school know about his difficulties. He was assessed last year after years of struggling and the report explains the problems he has with memory and processing instructions. His primary school were very quick to label him naughty and lazy and it took a long time to get anyone to look properly at why he was struggling. I was determined that secondary school would be different so I contacted the SENCO before he even started there.

I had a meeting with the SENCO early in the term and we discussed putting him into a smaller teaching group for some lessons because he was finding the work difficult. They also said he’d attend a supported homework club after school as he was refusing to do some of the homework because he didnt understand it. I was happy with both of these things and thought they were being put in place.

DS has since told me he isnt in the smaller group and hasnt been going to the homework club either. I emailed the SENCO last week to ask when this was starting and only got a reply today saying the smaller group wouldnt be available until later in the term. Nobody had told me this before and I’d been under the impression that the extra support was being sorted.

When I raised this with the Head of Year she said the school has expectations about behaviour and DS still has to follow the rules. I agree with that! I’m not saying he should be allowed to do whatever he wants because he has dyslexia. But I dont understand how they’re making decisions about his behaviour without seeming to consider the difficulties we’ve already discussed with them, or why I’ve had to chase up support that was supposed to be happening.

The conversation got quite defensive and I felt like she was trying to make it all about his number of detentions rather than answer my questions about the isolation and the support. I asked to speak to the deputy head and have now got a meeting arranged for tomorrow.

I’m worried I’ve made an enemy of the Head of Year now and that DS will end up getting watched even more closely because I’ve complained. At the same time I’m really cross that he’s been punished like this and I’m only finding out afterwards, when the school have known for weeks that he needs some extra help.

I dont want to be the parent who blames the school for everything and I do expect him to behave himself, but I also dont want him going through the same thing he did at primary school where he was constantly in trouble and his confidence got worse and worse.

Am I being unreasonable to be this angry about it? And what would you actually raise with the deputy head tomorrow? I want to get somewhere with the school rather than just have an argument, but at the moment I feel like I’m going round in circles.

I think you need to arrange a meeting with the SEND team's. Discuss your worries about his additional needs, get them to confirm what support ( and when) is to be put into place.
Ask about the one page profile (probably called something else but it is the info that subject teachers can view to see the needs of a pupil) - ensure it is correct.

I think if your son is supported, knows what the support is, he may settle in behaviour. Otherwise I think he will get frustrated and more disruptive. You need to work with the SEND team

Set changes usually happen after the first half term once school have been able to assess all of the pupils.
Detentions will be on the app and the '3 strikes and isolation' rule will be in the behaviour policy.
He is at secondary school and should be capable of getting himself to homework club - teachers can't be responsible for after school clubs of a huge amount of students.
You should be using this as a teaching point for your DS that he needs to behave. Speak to SENCO and get a timeline of expectations , but arguing with the head of year at the start of term when you will need their support is not the best start!
I have total sympathy with your son's situation but you are not helping.

The third was also for talking. He says he didnt understand what he was supposed to be doing, the teacher told him to stop talking and when he tried to explain he got done for talking back.

So was he "talking back" then, rather than explaining he needed further instructions? Has he told you how he spoke rather than his reason? Sometimes a struggling child can come across as bolshy from nerves or frustration. The talking in class seems his biggest trigger point so could "in class ISO" help? Sit him on his own so he hasn't got someone next to him to talk to or talk to him.

Detentions for talking when he shouldn't have been - don't argue this. Every kid complains that they had a reason for talking when they shouldn't have been. Teachers need to be able to get silence when they need to regardless of what a kid thinks. Tell him to be quiet when he is told to and these detentions will stop happening.

Homework detentions - he wasn't doing the homework. You say you were addressing this at home but also thought he had homework club? Didn't you notice he wasn't going to a homework club as these are normally after school?

If homework club and small group teaching are starting after half term, I think rather than arguing about whether detentions were valid (they seem to have been) your genuine complaints are

1. not told he was going into isolation
2. not had a meeting about his behaviour that should have happened
3. not being given a timeline by the SENCO for interventions

Best way to approach would be to see next term as a fresh start

1. he will improve his behaviour
2. he will attend homework club
3. school will get in touch before escalating sanctions
4. teachers will be made aware of his difficulties (sometimes this info is poorly communicated) and the approaches he needs.
5. school will organise small group intervention

I havent said he shouldnt have got a detention for talking though have I? I’m explaining the circumstances and why I think its worth looking at whats going on rather than just giving him one punishment after another and expecting it to suddenly fix things.

One was him apparently telling someone else to stop talking to him and the other was him trying to explain that he didnt understand what he was supposed to be doing. Yes, he was talking when the teacher had told him to stop, I’m not disputing that. But his difficulties with processing instructions and understanding work are relevant when we’re talking about why he keeps getting into trouble in the first place.

Also, nothing in the behaviour policy says 3 detentions means automatic isolation. It says isolation is for more extreme things like fighting, damage to property etc. But because he apparently had 3 detentions in one day, then down to 2 once the lateness one was cancelled, he was put in isolation on Friday without me knowing anything about it. I only found out when he came home.

If he was managing the work and understood what he was supposed to be doing then fair enough, but he doesnt. Thats why we discussed support with the school in the first place. I’m not saying he has no responsibility for his behaviour, I’m saying the school also has a responsibility to put the support they agreed to in place and communicate with me when things are getting this bad.

One was him apparently telling someone else to stop talking to him and the other was him trying to explain that he didnt understand what he was supposed to be doing
He needs to put his hand up if he doesn't understand. Not call out. If someone is talking to him he can just turn away from them and ignore them.

Has he just got dyslexia or has he been assessed for anything else? I mean I don't want to diagnose his but he sounds very like my autistic son who we all assumed had dyslexia.

I do understand that he needs to be punished if he’s genuinely done something wrong, I’m not arguing that he should be allowed to talk whenever he wants. But the detentions clearly arent working are they? He keeps getting them and nothing is changing, so surely something else needs to happen as well.

My worry is that he’ll now sit in lessons not having a clue what he’s supposed to be doing and instead of speaking up he’ll just sit there doing nothing and get punished for not doing the work. He’s embarrassed about how far behind he is already.

And no, there is no homework club for him at the moment. I was told he would be going to one and assumed it was being arranged, then found out it wont start until later next half term. The smaller group teaching hasnt started either.

So in the meantime he’s just going to keep falling further and further behind his peers while we wait for the support they said he would get. His confidence is already really low after what happened at primary school and I’m worried we’re heading down exactly the same road again. I dont see how telling him to behave better fixes any of that on its own.

@TryingNotToMakeItWorse
If the meeting goes ahead tomorrow with the deputy head you need to take some notes into the meeting. This is so you dont get sidelined by their agenda. Write out your points and make sure you get answers.
The school really need to hear that your son needs homework support whatever that looks like right now. There is no reason why they cant do it. I would be amazed if a deputy head refused to listen to you under these circumstances.
You need to share with the senior member of staff that you were unaware of the problems in class and the reasons for the detentions. Tell the DH that you still only have your sons side of the story and really need to know what it happening from the schools perspective.
Also see if you can lock in a meeting with the sendco whilst you are at school. The DH is senior to the Sendco and should be able to help with this.
I am sorry I misread your previous posts I thought the school had a homework club, its an easy win so most schools do it immediately.
Please don't be put off by all the emotions people feel about these topics, its actually pretty normal for dyslexic children to struggle in school and for teachers to not know what helps. This is partly because dyslexia hits children very differently. This is why I recommend looking up strategies on the big charities websites.

It sounds that there is more than just dyslexia going on.

When you meet tomorrow don't get stuck in a loop arguing the detentions and isolation and if they were fair or right. It is distracting from the main issue.

Highlight that you weren't aware of how many detentions he has been receiving and ask how you can move forward with the school to address what is actually going on. Ask what support they can realistically put in place. If your child does not have an EHCP then you will have to be realistic that there will be little additional support available in secondary school.

You need a meeting with SENCO to discuss exploring other reasons outside of the dyslexia for the behaviour and possibly assessing for an EHCP.

He was assessed last year and I was told he has dyslexia and a learning difficulty which affects his processing and memory, but I honestly dont know if there’s anything else going on. Nobody has suggested autism to me.

I asked to speak to the deputy head and have now got a meeting arranged for tomorrow.

My advice would be go with a visible list of questions to work through - and insist your questions get answered in meeting not just their agenda.

Also expect there to be lot bring up new problems no one spoke to you about before and for them to want to focus on them.

So I'd suggest a yes I underand and agree he need to follow the expected behavior rules but why was I told he be in a smaller group and this still hasn't happened - and I was no informed of a delay.

yes I agree he need to follow rules but Why was I told the detention - my fault - was cancel then he got put in isolation.

Why am I not being told about all denetions - yes I agree he need to follow the rule sbut why I am finding out now about all these dentions.

Yes I know there is an issue with homework that's why I asked the SENCO for the support group - why has that not happened. What should we be doing when he can't do the homework?

None of this stops you making it very clear to him his behavior needs to improve - he need not to be talking in class and he needs to be telling you about denetions and when homework is too hard for him or he doesn't understand it.

I thought it was us with DC secondary - after years of trying to work with them and finding their communication dire - but then found many of their freinds disgaonsed with exam concessions had parents basically having to go in again and again - why was there no invigilator in the side exam room - why was the exam cut short due to your staffing issues.

You will likely also have to up the support at home - even if already doing a lot - again based on experience. I've been woefully unipressed with SENCO across a few schools - lots of promises lots of it's all fine when it wasn't - they do have very limited resources as well.

But you absouletely can not let him think his dyslexia and poor memory issue is any kind of excuse for not doing work or misbehaving - it is something he need to managed as well.

If he is as behind in his learning as you say then in reality he is never going to manage unsupported in a mainstream classroom and it is possible this is not the correct setting for him. Why has his previous school allowed him to become so far behind without going down the EHCP route?

I feel sorry for your son it sounds as he has been grossly failed. To be in year 7 and working at year 2/3 with no additional support is only ever going to lead to these kinds of struggles. Forget the detentions you have much bigger issues to deal with and you need school onside to get the wheels in motion.

I don’t think you’re being unreasonable. You’re not saying your DS shouldn’t face consequences, but the school needs to take his dyslexia and working memory difficulties into account. I’d focus on why the agreed support hasn’t been put in place, why you weren’t informed his detentions were escalating, and why he was put in isolation when one of the detentions had been cancelled. Ask for a clear plan of support and better communication going forward. You’re advocating for your child, not making excuses for him.

There are a lot of common co-morbidties with dsylexia

https://www.bdadyslexia.org.uk/dyslexia/neurodiversity-and-co-occurring-differences

It's ADHD and dyspraxia with my DC. You can try GP and SENCO but TBH it may be worth figuring out where exactly the problems are now and how to deal - poor memory for one of my kids it was write everything down and have wall charts and reminders.

The dsylexia report must have mentioned a few areas of weakness.

If reading age is under 9 - https://www.soundfoundations.co.uk/product-category/dancing-bears/ has a placement setting part to it - they also have a very good spelling program but that is more intensive - my kids did it in primary years at home with me. Nessy - on-line could be worth a look.

Because he’s disrupting his learning and the learning of his classmates.

I'm dyslexic and so is my daughter. Obviously its different for everyone but its quite common and schools I think are better at understanding it these days. It does sound like he has more going on than just dyslexia.

Pretty much the stance of his primary school was that he was lazy and naughty and capable if he just tried harder, he just wasnt trying hard enough. They didnt support getting him properly assessed until year 5 by which point he was extremely behind.

He was diagnosed with his learning difficulty last December but there hasnt really been any support put in place since then. I’ve done a lot with him at home but he gets so frustrated with it and his self esteem is really low now. He also has a brother in year 6 who is so far ahead of him academically and it doesnt help when his brother is sat doing homework with ease while DS is struggling to understand what he’s meant to be doing even when it’s work for younger children.

Secondary havent mentioned an EHCP either. They’ve just said the smaller teaching group should be enough, but we’re now in the 7th week and it still hasnt happened. I was told it would be sorted by the 2nd or 3rd week of year 7 and that the homework club would be running too.

I think thats why I’m so frustrated, because I really have tried to get him help and the first meeting with the SENCO seemed really positive. I came away thinking that finally someone understood what he needed and secondary would be different. Instead we’re weeks in, the support isnt there and he’s still getting into trouble. I feel so sorry for him because he tries but everything is so much harder for him than it seems to be for other children.

Is this the right school for him? Has he got an EHCP?

unfortunately many schools just want rid of SEN pupils rather than support them when they will likely come out with low grades.

. Obviously its different for everyone but its quite common and schools I think are better at understanding it these days. It does sound like he has more going on than just dyslexia.

I think it's luck of the draw TBH - my DC schools have not been good with dsylexia (nor were my own ) - though most of the kids we know now diagnosed often despite school insisting they were fine all have other conditions as well.

I'd have a look see if other conditions may fit as well and how you'd get diagnosed but in background becuase it's never quick - and he needs help and support now and techniques to manage and difficulties he can.

Secondary havent mentioned an EHCP either

I think you can apply yourself. It would be something to bring up at the meeting.

Schools and SENCO IME do fob you off - sound great but nothing happens.

My parents told me I was a plodder - so people are plodders and others just high flyers- so I plodded along and did really well in end surpising everyone. My DC it was little and often - and I did push in primary and knew first hand that secondary support is patchy and not always quite what is needed and often take you out of lessons you need to be in. But I know other kids who did get support - sometime with tutors - and cought up in secondary.

I'm really sorry that his primary school failed him so badly. Push new school for an EHCP or look at how to apply yourself. IPSEA is a really useful website for advice.

It's time to become "one of those parents" and push push push!

Ok, so:

most schools have a way of communicating with parents when detentions are set. These days this is usually an app but websites and emails are also possible. They should be telling you when he has detentions.

it is very likely that is he is years behind he will not be able to access the secondary curriculum at all and yes many kids in this situation do respond by becoming very disruptive.

most students in this situation will have an EHCP or at a minimum be on the SEN register. You can apply for an EHCP yourself and it sounds like it may be necessary. Obviously the primary have let you down both in EHCP terms,

can your dc read and write at all?

some schools have nurture groups for children who are as behind as this but often an EHCP is needed to access them. It may be worth raising this in your meeting.

This is the problem with a lot of academy schools that have blanket "no excuses" rules. They don't look at the whole child or take individual circumstances into account. If your son struggles with processing information he is going to break those rules without meaning to he needs support not punishment which isn't going to make the slightest difference to his behaviour..
Also I think putting a child in isolation for a day is cruel and is likely to make things worse for your son.

Honestly some schools are hopeless with SEN children and won’t get any better unless held to account. You need to call your local SENDIASS and get them your speed with everything and make sure they attend meetings with you. You can not do this alone!