DS has been uninvited from a sleepover and I don’t know what to tell him

[TryingNotToMakeItWorse]

DS is in year 6, 10 but turns 11 next month. One of his closest friends is having a sleepover next weekend for her birthday and invited him along with 5 other girls. He’s the only boy.

He’s always got on better with girls really. He’s got a couple of boy mates but theyre more school friends if that makes sense, whereas the girls are who he actually wants to spend time with outside school. He’s been friends with this particular girl since year 3 and they’ve been to each others houses loads of times, so it’s not like they’ve only just started hanging about together.

Anyway he was invited last week. They were going to have pizza, watch films and all sleep in the living room.

Yesterday the mum messaged me saying she’d had a conversation with one of the other mums who wasnt comfortable with her DD staying overnight if a boy was there. Apparently she’d not really thought about it before but had decided she was going to make it girls only after all. So DS is no longer invited.

I do understand that its her house and she can have whatever rules she wants but I feel really uncomfortable about the way its happened. He was invited and now he’s been dropped because another parent has an issue with it. The birthday girl apparently still wants him there and they’ve not fallen out or anything.

I havent told him yet because I honestly dont know how to explain it without him thinking she’s changed her mind about being his friend. He doesnt get invited to that many sleepovers and he was genuinely excited about this one.

Part of me thinks I should just say the plans have changed and leave it at that, but then he’s going to find out at school when the other girls talk about it.

Would you tell him the actual reason or keep it vague? And would you say anything to the mum or just leave it now?

Why did he need mixed sex sleepovers to build healthy relationships with girls? Couldn't he build close and respectful relationships with awake girls?

The OP doesn't say the girls have asked for this. The girl who's party it was specifically wanted to invite her friend.

So why are you imposing this narrative?

It's one mum who apparently had a problem.

Children do not have the ability to risk assess. Children need safeguarding against risk. That's why adults make appropriate decisions.

Yeah this, could you ask the mum if this would work as a compromise (seeing as you say the birthday girl wants him there?)

I also think this would be a good compromise. He and the birthday girl clearly have a nice friendship.

However, it was the right decision to make it an all girls sleepover.

This is so creepy. Implying he would assault them in their sleep or something. It doesn't warrant a response - but it is obvious. The sleepover is about the fun of pushing sleep into distance, snacking, chatting, laughing.
I really worry about what sort of sons you are cultivating.

Ermmm. He had one at university last weekend, in a bizarre ritual of parenting that his college undertakes. Nothing untoward happened! Christ! Males and females in a room and one didn't take the other. Imagine.

You're the only of us that has said anything about assault... none of that needs to happen at a sleepover either.

The awake comment is clearly sexualising it and not making it very about body embarrassment.

I think a mixed sleepover at 10 is fine and wouldn't stop any of my kids from going if they wanted to.

But can you maybe see it is not unreasonable for some parents thinking it is time to stop mixed sex? Is there an age you would stop?

Is there an age you would stop?

I think this is the most reasonable question on a thread that has turned into a bit of a bunfight!

Not the person you asked, just thinking it over... personally, no, there isn't an age per se. It is (for me) more about the individuals and the group dynamic.

And I wonder if it's a bit cultural too? E.g. my kids are both Scouts here in the Netherlands and there's no sex segregation.

Schools place strong emphasis on relationships when designing curricula (not just sex education but also bodily autonomy, respect for self and others, enthusiastic consent etc).

It's quite different from how I was raised in Australia and New Zealand, countries that more closely follow the British/UK approach of automatically separating kids by sex around the age of puberty.

Not saying it's perfect (or saying that it should be this way for everybody everywhere, just saying I prefer the approach here).

And I do stand by my very early comment that it's rude to disinvite a party guest when they've done nothing wrong.

@Dutch1e I'm sure there are cultural issues at play. The Dutch have a very different approach iirc (I used to work for a Dutch company) with the Dutch being much more open/matter of fact on sex with children than the Brits.

I don't know how things are going in The Netherlands, but in the UK we definitely have a big issues right now with boys & Andrew Tate / porn etc.

Is there no sex segregation at all? Teenage boys and girls share tents?

Has anyone considered that the mum who objected to the boy might have felt her daughter was potentially a risk to him?!
I think, at such a young age, it's fair to assume curiosity around bodies/sex is there for both boys and girls. To imply girls are at risk from unwanted advances from a boy is very one-sided, it could happen from either side.

They share tents, yes.

You share a large tent with the other members of your patrouille, a kind of sub-group of the larger troupe. This sub-group is basically your team for the entire year and the kids are expected to work together with everything from preparing meals to keeping a clean camp to navigating over distances.

It's designed to build the ability to respect and care for people you may not normally choose as close friends, and it seems to work pretty well.

What do you mean you don’t know how to tell him? You’ve set it out very clearly here without any suggestion it was because the birthday girl didn’t want him. So you explain it as you have here and very much downplay it as an issue as kids take their cue about how big a deal things are from the adults around them. Don’t make it big.

Why are you imposing this bizarre narrative that only a child can express it doesn't want something, its parent can't do that on its behalf?

That's the entire function of parents, to make decisions, read situations and impose restrictions even when the child doesn't know how to do that itself.

I honestly find your description of your nearly pubescent son snacking, chatting and laughing through night with also nearly pubescent girls - and you pretending it's all totally non-sexual - a bit creepy.

A much more normal and healthy way for girls and boys of that age to be interacting WOULD be for there to be some kind of sexual charge or curiosity between them, which is why a sleepover would be inappropriate.

If so many young people are really so asexual in your scenario, that's unlikely and strange.

It's natural for there to be sexual feelings between men and women, and girls and boys approaching puberty - that's GOOD. Which is why it has to be handled carefully by the adults in charge.

It's crappy to invite a child to something and then uninvite them. I'm sorry you and he have been put in this position and hope your wee lad isn't too upset.

Ask her can he come over but leave after pizza ect before they get ready for bed ect.

I’d tell him the truth and I wouldn’t allow a mixed sex sleepover either

We don’t know that. We know at least one mum spoke up, the birthday girls mum might be trying not to say many or all of them think that way, other mums and dads might think the same and be uncomfortable saying it, and some of the girls might think the same and the mum is really being a good parent and speaking for her daughter, like the classic making it mum and dads fault you have to go when you want to get away from the party.

Would you also separate same-sex friends in case they are same-sex attracted?

(I'm not picking a fight, I'm just interested in people's thoughts on the nuances)

Not from a general sleepover, because although the risk of sex is obviously still there:

• there are no issues of privacy and dignity in same sex groups (biggest issue age 10)
• there is not an inbuilt balance of power situation
• there is no risk of pregnancy either