DS has been uninvited from a sleepover and I don’t know what to tell him

[TryingNotToMakeItWorse]

DS is in year 6, 10 but turns 11 next month. One of his closest friends is having a sleepover next weekend for her birthday and invited him along with 5 other girls. He’s the only boy.

He’s always got on better with girls really. He’s got a couple of boy mates but theyre more school friends if that makes sense, whereas the girls are who he actually wants to spend time with outside school. He’s been friends with this particular girl since year 3 and they’ve been to each others houses loads of times, so it’s not like they’ve only just started hanging about together.

Anyway he was invited last week. They were going to have pizza, watch films and all sleep in the living room.

Yesterday the mum messaged me saying she’d had a conversation with one of the other mums who wasnt comfortable with her DD staying overnight if a boy was there. Apparently she’d not really thought about it before but had decided she was going to make it girls only after all. So DS is no longer invited.

I do understand that its her house and she can have whatever rules she wants but I feel really uncomfortable about the way its happened. He was invited and now he’s been dropped because another parent has an issue with it. The birthday girl apparently still wants him there and they’ve not fallen out or anything.

I havent told him yet because I honestly dont know how to explain it without him thinking she’s changed her mind about being his friend. He doesnt get invited to that many sleepovers and he was genuinely excited about this one.

Part of me thinks I should just say the plans have changed and leave it at that, but then he’s going to find out at school when the other girls talk about it.

Would you tell him the actual reason or keep it vague? And would you say anything to the mum or just leave it now?

I would tell him the truth. I do think birthday girls mum has made the wrong decision in this instance. He was already invited, uninviting him is not fair. She should have told the worried mum that it’s ok that her daughter doesn’t attend the sleepover but could just come for the daytime/evening. If all the other parents are fine with your son being there, there should not have been an issue.

Precisely. Because it keeps them all safer than living in the lala land you seem to inhabit.

I find it a little creepy that two of your hypothetical scenarios involve sex. These are 10 year-old children. I hope you don't have kids at all.

It's a shame for your son. I have had plenty of mixed sleep over at that age, and older. The parents just set up 2 rooms, one for girls and one for boys. It's not rocket science.

The other girl was already invited too. Perhaps she wasn't aware a boy would be there when she accepted. Why should the girl be the one to not go, why should the boy's feelings take precedence here? A fine way to teach girls and boys that girls' feelings about privacy are secondary to a boy's 'right' to be there.

I hope you dont have kids. You clearly have no clue about normal hormonal development of 10 and 11 year olds.

Incidentally, I asked my almost 10yo dd last night how she'd feel in this scenario:

"I wouldn't want to go to a sleepover that included a boy or boys, even if they were a friend. I like my privacy now my body is changing. The boy could maybe sleep in another room, I'd have no problem watching a film and eating pizza with him. If i had already accepted, I'd want you to speak to the party girl's mum about how I was feeling."

Now, i know my dd may be quite guarded in this sense (and honestly, good for her), but I'm pretty sure my ds would have also felt the same at that age. He'd certainly have understood, and accepted, why he couldn't attend a girls' sleepover. He had plenty of friends who were girls at that age, and he still does now he's nearly 16.

No it doesn't, it just instills/ promotes sexist , heterosexist and ultimately restrictive and degrading social norms/ stereotypes around gender, sex and sexuality.

And those ultimately make everyone less safe.

That’s a shame but I can understand. Some children have entered puberty at 10 and perhaps she recalls children at school kissing etc at this age - it definitely happened at mine. I’d offer to collect him in the evening so he can still do the pizza and movie element. He’s also definitely old enough to understand the differences between a boy and girl and why some mums are uncomfortable with them sleeping in the same room.

They would also be safer never going in a car, a train, a plane, a ride, never going in the street, crossing the road, drinking coffee, alcohol, eating red meat, not going into the water, not doing sports,...

It's not lalaland, it's teaching them to deal with reality rather than avoiding 50% of the population because of the behaviour of a minority.

Even if that were true, it isnt on children to sacrifice their privacy in an attempt to dismantle established social norms. Disturbing that you think it should be.

Ah yes because plane rides are exactly like a sleepover aren't they?
And actually, we do know that women and girls are not always safe and respected in those spaces either. So not sure what point you're trying to make.

You're imposing the idea that it's about protecting their "privacy"- regardless of what the child herself feels!

I could lock my girls in a room all day, and declare it was for their "privacy", it wouldn't make it ok or anything to do with safeguarding,

Yes, that is what parents do. Impose things upon children who lack the maturity to understand everything. Just like we teach them to look both ways before crossing the road.
Single sex sleepovers are no way comparable with imprisonment.

I do think it OK for the parent of the girl hosting the party to decide the sleepover will be girls only,after hearing the concerns of the other parent, there may also be more than one girl/parent who is not comfortable with a mixed sleepover. I dont think the boy has done anything wrong and its unfortunate the parent of the birthday girl didnt consider the isue of wether others parents of girls may not be happy with a mixed sleepover. It was the parent of the birthday child who ultimately made this decision though,its her childs party and her prerogative to decide.

Why are you implying that the girl herself is actually ok with it, rather than that she is genuinely uncomfortable and therefore spoke to her mother about it, as is the most likely scenario? But even if it wasn't, the mother may have perfectly good reason to intervene on her behalf.

The point is that just because you are an adult and you are imposing a rule on a child- that doesn't mean that it is, in itself , automatically a good thing. Adults can impose appropriate rules and they can also impose harmful ones,

In this case, imposing the idea on your child, that she needs her "dignity and privacy" shielded from another child simply because she is a girl and he is a boy, regardless of the fact that the two feel comfortable themselves and are friends, introduces sexist, heterosexist and harmful social norms about gender, sex and sexuality to children. Simply insisting it's necessary because you are an adult and it's about privacy doesn't establish it's acceptable.

Because my intervention in this argument was to say that if my daughters were ok/ comfortable with it I wouldn't have a problem with it. then people started piling on saying I was an irresponsible parent- I was responding to that.

If the girl in question was incomfortablr that's obviously a completely different thing. In that case though I wouldn't have thought she should give it a miss rather than disinviting the other child. If multiple parents and children were uncomfortable then I can see that the party mum was in a difficult situation and can understand why she came to the decision she did.

Did op say the other mum demanded the boy be disinvited ?

Or possibly and more likely The birthday girl was told Ava can’t come hunny, why mum as she was so excited at school? Because Joseph is coming and she’s not comfortable sleeping with him here. Well I want Ava here more than Joseph.

Or another one and again rather likely is that Ava’s mum isn’t the only one who has complained but was the parent willing to be named and take the heat for it when all the other girls didn’t want to sleep if Joseph was or all the parents where not willing if Joseph slept.

Joseph is also likely to be more on the outskirts of the friendships within the group so will be dropped for things like this when it comes up.

It sucks for him but the problem is with the parent who didn’t seem to grasp the fact bodies are changing and people can be embarrassed and uncomfortable around the other sex. I’m still shocked op even accepted the invite. My son would have been like no why would I want to go to a girls sleep over.

There is a lot of making up scenarios on this thread about who is doing and saying what.

no one knows anything other than the facts of this case which are

1. the girl and the boy are good mates and are comfortable in each other’s company and having sleepovers
2. the OP and the girls mum are comfortable with their relationship and that they are still young and doesn’t see anything untoward at this moment in time
3. the other parent has legitimate concerns as likely doesn’t know the boy as well and so voiced those concerns
4. the birthday girl’s mum decided it was easier/simpler (insert whatever reasoning she had we don’t know about) to make it girls only.

that is it. There is nothing else to go on. Some kids are young and I can understand why the OP and the birthday girl’s mum didn’t think anything of it at this point in time. I can also see why another mum would see it differently. It is a tricky age with children at different stages of development. No one is wrong here other than the birthday girl’s mum who caused the situation and didn't seek to rectify somehow herself. Personally I would have abandoned this sleepover and done a party instead where everyone went home. I’d then rearrange a sleepover a few weeks later for the girls and not make a big deal about it.

Indeed. Adults can impose harmful beliefs on children. I see your thoughts on that topic on the other thread.
Girls are not obligated to share spaces with boys at vulnerable times. It is really that simple.

Ok, I can see that now.

However, I was that girl who was 'comfortable' (and naive) at the same age. I got trapped between two boys on a bed thinking it was just a bit of fun/ high jinx/ play fighting (I was quite the tomboy). Next day at school, it had morphed into a 'sandwich' (sexual connotation) and I was absolutely mortified. Everyone asking me if I'd enjoyed the sandwich at Ben's sleepover.

While it hasn't exactly scarred me for life, i can still remember how the aftermath made me feel - and nothing bad actually really 'happened'.

There are very good reasons why parents intervene where 10 year olds are concerned.

The number of posters who are saying it's "rude" for the boy to have to hear a no here is just wild. And yet these same mums would loudly declare they are horrified by the Cornell 7 for example. Hello? Is anyone in there?

No, we're teaching them that women's bodies are not objects for male consumption and that they are entitled to change without men looking at them.

You have a clear viewpoint about the rights of men to be given access to areas preserved for women. You are entitled to hold the view. I strongly disagree with it and think that girls need to be empowered and protected from the insidious societal influence that would give men power over their bodies.

You’re projecting the idea that a ten-year-old boy—their friend—views their bodies as objects for male consumption, simply because he’s a boy and they are girls. I find that a deeply disturbing, harmful and damaging way to frame a friendship between children.

Girls and boys are absolutely entitled to privacy when changing - regardless of their sex, and the sex of others around them, and sharing a sleepover doesn’t have to mean getting changed in front of one another.