Is this bullying or is it normal for 8 year olds?

[AmILosingMySanity]

I’m so sorry for the length of this. DD is in Y4. For the last two years or so, she’s had a lot of trouble from a former friend/frenemy in her class - let’s call her Emma. It’s involved name calling, exclusion, following her around the playground shouting mean things, etc. It was really tricky and school were rubbish about doing anything about it. This child is of course all sweetness and light as soon as there’s an adult within earshot, and horrendously cruel as soon as a teacher leaves again. One of the saddest things was that sometimes she’d reel DD back in and DD would come home all excited because she’d been nice to her and they were friends again for a couple of weeks, only for the whole cycle to start again.

They’ve now gone up to the junior school, on a different site, with different teachers, who don’t know the kids at all. Emma has teamed up with another known bully - a really quite disturbed little girl, “Mia”. It’s well know that Mia made another child’s life absolute hell last year, so was separated from her this year. She’s on the look out for a new victim and having got together with Emma, she’s found DD. She’s punched DD in the face (but school says that because nobody saw it, it doesn’t count and they can’t do anything about it). If DD answers a question in class, Mia sneers at her quite openly. She comes and destroys DD’s craft projects in the playground almost every day. Last week, Emma, Mia and one of their friends (also not famous for being kind) cornered DD in the changing room and chanted at her that she was disgusting and weird and gross. DD said that it went on and on and on and she couldn’t get away.

The school didn’t let us know that this had happened. They have claimed repeatedly that they have contacted the parents of the three girls responsible but I know from those parents that the information they were given hugely downplayed the seriousness of what happened and they weren’t told about the name calling at all.
I am really upset and angry and am trying to get the school to implement their own Anti Bullying Policy and put in place some sort of proper consequences for these kids, as a deterrent to them and two other kids who are sort of borderline hanging around with the bullies and, I think, considering joining in - the only consequence that two of them have had is to miss 15 minutes of break time. I think Mia, with her history, is being kept on a tighter reign at school and kept away from DD. School are treating me as though I’m crazy and insist that I must never refer to them as “mean” and that they are actually kind, lovely and gentle children and have called me in to talk to the school counsellor “about what is normal behaviour for children this age”.

I feel completely gaslit but maybe I am completely unreasonable and this is normal and acceptable behaviour for Y4 kids? I have hardly slept all week for worrying about it, so it’s hard to see the wood for the trees any more.

Anyone?

No it’s not normal, it’s bullying and it needs proper escalation. Some schools are really shit with bullying and only deal with it when parents get heavily involved.

I'd move my child.

Not normal at all. Absolutely shocking.

Of course it’s not normal, the school are spectacularly shit.

I am especially upset about the suggestion that we all have to pretend they are lovely, kind children. So far, they have as far as I am aware only said that to me and DH but I’ll be really upset if they say it to DD. She needs to be able to say what happened to her and to be able to rely on her own memory, without being told she’s wrong. It feels like I keep pointing out that the sky is blue and school are insisting that it’s red, and getting very visibly annoyed with me for daring to say that no, it really is blue!

The problem is that bullying is the norm in some places. And it's not ok, so don't just let it go.

If the school doesn’t follow their anti-bullying policy, take your complaint to the school governors. The school will certainly act then!

I’d move my child to another school. If this continues it could affect your child permanently.

Move her.

Keep a diary (incidents & responses) and report to governors.

I’d also move my child in these circumstances- schools are spineless against these types of children.

Goodness this is horrific, not sure how you can be in any doubt whether this is normal or is bullying....of course it is!

You need to move your child out of that school and environment straight away....to be honest that should have happened long ago but sounds like the school brainwashed you.
Please protect her especially as she is so little...it saddens me to hear children so young are being so unkind.
My Y5 has had afew minor issues with mean girls but nothing like that!!

I would start looking at other schools OP. Are there any other options for you?

I feel like this with our school albeit the situation hasn't been so severe but just feel like they gaslight me and make me feel like I'm an idiot and nuisance for advocating for my child! I've considering moving but worried it will be much the same as schools are under so much pressure. We do go back to our school time and time again and refuse to be minimised, we ask for sit down meetings and this does help when they realise we aren't going away! But sometimes I feel details get lost/swept away as it's so hard/long to be heard about one thing e.g the school focuses on why we/other parents weren't informed and they lose sight of the actual incident where our child was hurt.

I'd advise keeping going and putting things in an email, using the words safeguarding matter, don't feel your child is safe at school. Your child is unhappy, what support will they give her..... my child is happy at their school but if they weren't I'd move them for sure.

Not normal I would write a very stern email to the head, copying in DD’s teacher. I would make sure to include phrases such as ‘I am genuinely concerned about the lack of safeguarding around my daughter from the school.’ and then say you expect them to arrange a meeting to discuss their safeguarding policy and how they will implement it going forward.’ If nothing changes. Say youwill report the lack of action to the governers and Ofsted as a severe safeguarding concern.

If moving is not an option, there will be an anti-bullying lead and a designated safeguarding lead, email them both. make sure you quote the anti-bullying policy.

Have a paper trail, copy in the head. Inform them that if nothing is done you will be contacting the governors. Then, if nothing is done, email the governers, making sure you copy in the head and the anti-bullying lead.

In all emails say that they have a “duty of care for all children in their school and your child does not feel safe”. One of the first questions on an Ofsted questionnaire asks if your child feels safe.

I, personally, would say something like “I trust the school will take positive action as I know you have handled other issues, of a different nature, in a positive way.” The reason I say this is, that you want to play the game to start with. Don’t make the teaching staff a target for SLT. Make sure you keep the emails aimed squarely at management, otherwise they can palm the problem off onto one of the class teachers, and blame them. This is a management issue and needs to be taken to their door.

Keep a record of everything, dates etc, to use later on.

You’re doing a great job and I am sure your daughter can see you are taking action for her, also important.

I hate bullying, I have been in schools for decades. I have been anti-bullying lead and the school has a “duty of care” to your child. Bullying can also be a sign that something is going on with the bully at home. This is not your issue, I’m not saying that this is an excuse, and you should stick up for your daughter 100%, but they also have a duty to investigate what is going on with them.

I’m putting the in quote marks around “duty of care” because it’s an important phrase to use, keep using it.

Good luck OP.

Unfortunately it’s an independent school so they’re not inspected by Ofsted, only the ISI. And I’m not sure that any ISI inspection has ever said anything negative about a school, ever.

I’ve written numerous emails and had a number of meetings with various members of staff at school - DD’s teacher, the Head of Year, the Head of Safeguarding and Pastoral and one with the Headteacher. They’re all making out that I’m a nuisance for continuing to push this and to want some sort of consequence or deterrent for the kids to not do it again. They say that they have talked to them and made them miss 15 minutes of break time and “telephoned their parents” - but of course they didn’t actually tell them about the bullying when they telephoned their parents - and that that’s enough. They are making out that I’m a terrible person to want to force these “lovely, kind children” to have to experience more serious consequences. I feel like I’m going mad. They definitely aren’t complying with their own anti-bullying policy but they’re just shrugging their shoulders.

I guess I want to make absolutely sure that I’m being reasonable in my requests - that I’m not being vindictive towards children because I’m angry, because that wouldn’t be ok either.

My daughter would never return to the school and I would be seeking a new school placement elsewhere. I would also put in a written complaint to the school governors

Sorry this is not normal behaviour. Maybe a state school would be better. What are your reasons for the independent school?
We would definitely be challenging the girls over behaviour, especially if there are different versions of an event, escalating it if necessary til a version that sounded similar came out. There would also be consequences such as missing lunch times and making a card to say sorry. Staff would also be keeping a close eye on them. It sounds awful if it's happening directly in the classroom in front of the teacher and the girls aren't picked up on it.

You are paying for your dd to be bullied op.

Headteacher and governors immediately. I'm a teacher, this is not ok.

Oh I am sorry, I have only worked in state schools, I really don’t know the process for private schools. I am sure that someone will be along is a min who has more experience than me.
It sounds like you have done so much. To answer your question, this is definitely bullying and I am sorry the school isn’t taking it seriously.

School are behaving terribly but, you are premumably getting all these reports from your DD. Im not suggesting she is fibbing but this is the problem with bullies. They can be very devious. Can she go into a different class?