I think the school mums don’t like me

[Makingfriebds]

I’m autistic but high functioning. I hide it very well and people close to me are shocked when I tell them and some even laugh thinking I’m joking! I try to copy social skills I see around me and on tv but I feel really upset and I hope someone can help me.

Context - my DS in a school where reception to year 2 they have one form entry school then at y3-y6 2 form so a completely new group of around 25 kids join and classes are mixed so half new and half “old” class kids.

Beyond the small talk I don’t seem to make deeper friendships. This year I thought I would try with the new mums and honestly I’m not just saying this but I’m also trying for them as I felt they must be lonely and finding things difficult so I felt I should make more effort with them and they have appreciated me reaching out and answering questions about clubs, homework and pe uniforms etc. whoever anyone has a question I respond as helpfully as I can.

I asked on group WhatsApp if anyone fancied getting a cup of coffee after drop off (I know half of the mums already bear in mind and we often say hi and have previously had coffee mornings and been to each others home) I thought this would be nice for the new parents to meet everyone. No one responded but day before the suggested coffee morning 3 people responded with it will be so lovely but I already am going XYZ. They suggested another one following week or after.

I messaged those mums separately and they seemed so lovely and we arranged just us 4 in cafe near school following Friday. I got there early after drop off. One had cancelled night before which I understand. The other 2 cancelled when I was already sat there! I responded warmly saying no problem at all and these things happen. I felt embarrassed sitting there waiting as I saw other mums from the other class who I already knew from reception when I entered and said hi then said I’m waiting for the new mums for coffee. So embarrassing sitting there waiting!

yesterday I went to grab a take out coffee before heading home and I see 3 of them sat there! I was really upset but smiled and said hi.

I have really tried over the years with lots of people so is it time I just accept I will never have friends? I feel so lonely. I turned 40 last year and that’s when it hit me I don’t have any girlfriends to have dinner or drinks with. When my kids leave I’ll be alone. My DH is autistic too so has zero friends. I feel so alone. My son has been playing with the new boys and I have asked the mums to come around my home or meet in park for play date but they haven’t responded.

Any tips please?

I work in a sector where I believe majority of my colleagues are also autistic and don’t want to socialise after work. I have tried.

I am quite shy but pretty sociable and have always found it fairly easy to make friends but unless I had a specific reason to spend time with them, school mums were not always that easy to get to know.

The ones I was friends with I knew well for the following reasons:

My eldest daughter was really sociable and would organise playdates and plan lots of activities with her friends who would then get their parents on board. This forced me to make more of an effort.

My son was sporty so I got to know a lot of people at sports fixtures. You see the same ones regularly and everyone is hanging around with not much to do, so it is fairly easy low-pressure socialising. Plus there are practical things like lift sharing to organise.

I knew some from before because of nursery and older sibling.

Op you have posted before about this recently, when no one responded to your coffee invite, at that point you said you’d stop trying so hard, but clearly are,

I am suspecting the issue is you’re trying too hard some coming across as a bit needy and that puts people off I’m afraid,

it’s the ones who are relaxed and easy going, have other stuff going on, who end up being the most popular. It’s just an odd quirk of human nature, the ones who try too hard are the ones people tend to avoid,

A lot of what you have said resonates with me OP. I’m 42 and have a DC in year 2. I literally got my AuADHD diagnosis in the last few weeks. Also High functioning and most would have no idea. But I find the school gate incredibly overwhelming and complex to navigate.

I made friends with a group of Mums early on but it’s become clear recently that there is a separate WhatsApp group that I am
not included in, and that there have been social events I’m no longer invited to. I have good friends outside of school mum friends - but it still hurts.

PP’s suggestion of joining the PTA is a good one, I have done this and it’s a good way to be involved and meet a range of people.

You sound lovely BTW OP. If I was at your DCs school I would want to go for a coffee with you!

I think you've been really kind, but I suspect that your existing school year mums will already have made natural friendships, and I wonder if the ones coming up know each other or are maintaining friendships they had from R to Y2, so possibly aren't on the look out for adding more mum friends based only on being at the same school and only for a few years.

I'd suggest looking elsewhere for friendship- do you have any hobbies (gym classes, yoga, book club, volunteering, art) or does your child have hobbies you can involve yourself in (scouting, sports etc). It's more likely to gel if you have actual things in common and you can relax and be yourself. I did make a few friends very early in the school, then we moved our children in year 5 and 3 (don't ask!) I've made no new friends at the new school, all the other mums are settled in friendships and honestly my calendar is filled with work and my existing friends and commitments. I know they'll only be in this school for a few years so I'm friendly at pick up and drop off and that's it. I'd probably find it too much if someone tried to be friend me properly - I suspect this is the issue trying at this stage of primary. I'd keep being kind, keep organising play dates and birthday parties that work for your son, see if anyone clicks. I'd also recommend trying other ways away from the playground as per suggestions, or is there an ND support group where you could meet other people who might get you too and have similar challenges. Good luck!

I'd suggest finding social activities that don't require you to be friends and see if it develops. Maybe gym classes, a book club, a WI, pottery course etc. Does your local college have any adult short courses?

I agree. I have made friends through school but luckily a couple of mums really gelled with me and vice versa. Lots of people really don't or haven't made any friends.

I suspect OPs ND traits have made her obsess that school mum friends are the "correct" friends and it's the "right way" to make friends, and now it isn't happening, it feels frustrating and like the rules of the playground/mums have been broken. I suspect that's why she's fixating on this being the right thing to do, and deciding to ignore everyone saying that it's not a given. She doesn't want to hear it unfortunately. My son is autistic and finds it really hard when things he has been told "work" don't, e.g. he asked someone about their holiday, lent them his pen, and then they didn't automatically want to be his best friend. I think it's a similar thing, OP has followed the rules, being kind on WhatsApp, inviting them for playdates and coffee but it hasn't worked and that breaks the rules she had been told would result in friendship.
Everyone is saying she needs to pivot and try somewhere else or other people, but it might take her a while to accept that, because she thought this should and would work.

Sports clubs can be great for making new adult friends, shop around for a social one - tennis, martial arts, netball etc.

It also means you don't have to organise, everyone will be there every week and all you need to do is go to the pub afterwards.

I don’t think it’s an odd quirk at all! Desperation is off putting because it basically means that person hasn’t thought ‘X is interesting —I’ll see if she’d like to go for coffee because I feel we’d get on’, they’ve thought ‘I’m lonely and that person has a pulse! She will fill my friend vacancy!’ It doesn’t come from a position of actual liking and warmth, but from an ‘Anyone will do!’ one.

This is all absolutely true but the other factor is that parents of primary school children are typically run ragged dealing with their kids and families and (usually) jobs.

If they are anything like me they struggle to fit in time to see friends they have known for decades alongside making time for their spouses and children. Their lives are a constant carousel of admin and obligation and pressure to get things done which is relentless. What they want from social interaction is light, fun and low pressure.

If someone arrives on the scene who seems needy and high maintenance and gets the hump because someone they have known three months can’t make time for coffee they are going to run a mile.

You can make good and lasting friendships among school parents but not if you project the vibe that you are layering on yet more guilt and obligation.

Ahh I don’t really do the school mum thing very well either.
I find there are some groups but mostly they know each other from outside school, neighbours, old school friends, kids in a club together, have a shared hobby, went to NCT together. I would say it’s probably something like that rather than they don’t like you. They just already know each other.

Absolutely. There was one woman I really liked at DS’s primary with whom I think I could have become good friends. I loved talking to her when we met, and we managed a couple of nights out with mutual friends. But ultimately our schedules just didn’t allow it. She worked away on site for prolonged periods and had two children with additional needs and a DH in the emergency services, and often if she called at short notice I wasn’t free because my job is quite inflexible. If either of us had been exuding obligation and reproach,I don’t think we’d have given one another a second thought.

Oh OP I'm really sorry you're going through this, I didn't want to read and run but it sounds very familiar to me too... I find it all very cliquey. Occasionally I'll be able to meet someone for a coffee but its hard to arrange, whereas others just seem to constantly hang out at weekends, do things like events, film nights, halloween etc stuff together. We never get invited. Some have known each other longer through older siblings and just seem to be in established groups. We've tried inviting ppl to stuff, playdates etc, its rare anything comes back. My son is more sociable than I am but also autistic so I don't know if the parents just find it easier not to have to deal with this (he's actually very well behaved just can be a bit emotional). Its actually heartbreaking as he's so keen to spend time with his friends and they talk about their weekend hangouts in front of him so he's aware of not being included and can't understand why. They play together at school but as soon as its out of school its so restrictive because of the parents.
I dont know if I can help, but wanted you to know you arent alone. It can be so lonely. If you lived near me I'd totally hang out x

Yes I think this is spot on!

OP seems utterly determined that this is THE WAY to meet friends and now it’s not working out she is understandably upset but also quite baffled by it. It’s meant to work, people told me I’d meet all my friends this way so where the heck are they?!!

@Makingfriebds @Sleightofhandtwistoffate I'm in much the same boat as you. I wonder if masking well leaves a kind of uncanny valley feeling with people. Like they know there's something they're not seeing, and they file it as the autistic person being 'off'. My hunch is that true friendship can only happen when the mask is off, but I can't imagine what that looks like in situations such as the school gates.

My children are now past that age and in many ways I'm happy not to be in those forced social situations any more. But at the same time I'm missing the casual interactions. They might not mean much in the long term, but they did make the world seem a little less lonely.

My son’s friends go to each other’s houses but we’ve never been invited and I’ve wondered if it’s because I’m autistic. I know how you feel.

It is NOT normal to make a group of besties among the mums at the school gate, who go on holiday together and weekly meals out!!

I made a few 'friends' among the mums but they were tenuous friendships at best and as soon as kids went off to different secondary schools the friendships mostly quickly fizzled. We probably went out once or twice a year at most and certainly never went on holiday together 😂 the occasional coffee, once in a blue moon. One became a proper friend but this was more that we truly got on, not just circumstantial stuff.

They're still people who if we bump into each other while out and about we exchange some chat, catch up etc, and are warm and friendly, but not really friends.

Sorry to hear this. It could be a blessing in disguise though. From my experience being friends with other parents is very much impacted by how the kids get along. Once you start getting fall outs amongst the kids then things can get really messy.

There are better ways to broaden your social circle. The best thing I ever did was get a dog. I’ve met so many good people on our walks down the local park.

OP I feel the same as you, I suspect I’m ND because people have always found me odd, and some have been rude enough to tell me to my face. I find it really hard to make friends and tend to have quite superficial friendships that don’t last long and fizzle out. I don’t know what the answer is, but you’re not alone.

OP, the posters here that don’t know this struggle will suggest you can do x, y, z and whatever else you’re supposedly doing wrong.

This might not be what you want to hear, but it’s not going to happen with them. Your wavelength is different, and there will be micro behaviours that you can’t control that people just don’t like, no matter how well you mask, did you know most people decide they dislike autistic people within a very short time frame of meeting them?

You will not, you cannot, connect with them, and it’s not your fault. People like to think they’re tolerant but they’re not. I’ve also tried to make friends, I accept them as they are, but it doesn’t work, because you won’t give them the safety they need because their behaviours revolve around validation. We understand a turn of phrase and such, but we can’t emulate the nuances they use to make each other feel comfortable and establish and affirm the relationship, we don’t recognise their hierarchies, we cannot access their framework, we are not wired for it.

Not sure if it’s helpful for you, but it’s helped me come to peace with it.

Sorry you feel so lonely OP, and it must have stung to see the others having coffee together after they cancelled on you. However, it doesn't sound like you've done anything wrong.

A hobby is a great way to meet like minded people with shared interests as there is already something you have in common. Does your child do any extracurricular activities, again this is another way of meeting other parents.

I moved to a different part of the country when my son started school, also suspect ND, hoped to make new friends, and also feel like I don't fit in/ not liked.

Although I do sometimes left out, one thing I know about primary mums is that we are all busy- everyone has young kids, most of us have jobs, partners, other responsibilities. I have seen several suggestions of meeting up for coffee from other mums receive a tepid response or accepted and later cancelled. It sounds like you have a full life- son, husband, full time job, two sisters. Carry on being nice to everyone and try not to take it to heart. You will have the opportunity to throw parties for your son and invite his close friends over. To my mind it is much better than the parents who force their kids to socialize and then find themselves in an awkward situation where the kids later fall out.

I think you're casting your net too wide and coming off desperate for that reason.

Wait til youve actually built a connection with someone before suggesting a meet up.

Theres absolutely no way I'd meet up with a mum I wasn't friends with for no other reason than a coffee.

But if I chat to someone for a few months, we discover a mutual interest, maybe I'd text them a few times not asking anything in particular, only then if I got really good friendly vibes would I suggest time together outside of school. And that time would be for a very specific reason in case it doesn't work out and we don't want to repeat it.

I hope this isnt too general, I can be more specific if you want.

I am ND and have difficulty forming close friendships. I have a few long term friends who I see from time to time but I don't have a large group of friends.

What I've realised is that this is ok. Panicking or feeling down about it is mostly FOMO. But actually I get overwhelmed by too much social contact and need time by myself to recharge. So it's not necessarily a bad thing that I don't have heaps of social commitments.

I aim to become friendly acquaintances with people I come across regularly, including the other school parents. I find this is much more realistic than close friendship, which develops organically and mostly by chance. I am smiley, happy, helpful and mildly interested in their lives. Tbh I like the children more than most of the parents (unlike most on MN, I actually do like most children I come across, not just my own) and am genuinely interested to hear what they are up to and how they are getting on.

I find it difficult when I feel that people are initiating social exchanges with something being demanded/expected of me (i.e. there's an 'expected' way I should behave), and I think this is the same for many people, whether ND/NT. 'It's better to give than receive' applies to friendships as well as gifts imo, so rather than going into social exchanges expecting or hoping for some sort of social fulfilment from others, it's better to keep it positive and undemanding and have no expectations, even if that means not chatting at all but just smiling in a friendly way. People don't always want to talk.

You've put this really beautifully 😊

Being a few years into the whole school thing now, I kind of agree. I went along to a few events at the start, but I've learnt to be kinder to myself over the years and so now would happily spare myself the ordeal of meeting up with a group of people that I didn't really have a connection with yet 😅. I don't enjoy things like this and I don't come across particularly well in them.