The whole UPF concept is an artificial distinction and very unhelpful

[Interestingnamesuggestion]

I understand that it's healthier to eat foods that are more natural/made with natural ingredients. I have no issue with that.

My issue is that putting so much food that people eat regularly (especially people on lower incomes) into one category and labelling it all as if it were all equally bad just removes all nuance and can make healthy choices feel unachievable to people who have less money or less time to spend in the kitchen.

Literally, cheap sliced wholemeal bread is a UPF in the same category as cheap white sliced bread. Same category as a bag of Quavers or gummy bears.

Wouldn't it be better to have one or two more categories to reflect the benefits of eating food that is higher in fibre (e.g. wholegrains, not that weird stuff they add to "healthy" processed snacks) and lower in fat and sugar? Or food that has some additives but is made with a higher proportion of whole foods?

On one hand yes , and a number of publications have discussed this. How limiting it could be. How there is a balance and how some stuff is worse than others

on the other hand - no - allowing something a pass because it affects the poorest in society moat seems the wrong way to fix the problem.

It’s not ok that food would not be labelled harmful when it is . It’s also not ok that poorer people can’t afford healthy diets

relablling unhealthy as healthy isn’t the right answer

You’re not wrong. Of course it’s facile to suggest that a cheap loaf of brown bread is no better healthwise than a packet of blue raspberry gummy sweets because they’re both “UPF”. And it’s alienating to those trying to make realistic choices. But MN loves a good purity spiral 🙄

@brownbootsandhats why does everything have to be considered "healthy" or " unhealthy"? Isn't it the whole diet and lifestyle that should be considered more or less healthy rather than each individual component?

To an UPF zealot, pretty much everything apart from water and table salt is classed as a UFP (maybe the table salt also because of the anti caking agent).

The zealots of course are always trying to outdo each other in taking things to extremes and feel better about themselves by looking down on everyone else.

You just have to come up with your own definition of what's reasonable and be happy with that, rather than let someone that subsists totally on water and raw vegetables dictate what you should and shouldn't eat.

I agree OP. I was surprised to find the meusli i buy was classified as UPF. Ingredients are simply oats seeds whole nuts and dried fruit no added sugar.
After researching it I concluded it was purely down to the particular preservative used in the dried banana, which is actually only a tiny proportion of it, all the other ingredients were absolutely fine.

There are a bunch of classification systems that recognise that not all processing is the same, for example NOVA, Siga.

I do agree with this

if upfs are all lumped together in the same category like a pp’s muesli and blue coloured sweets then people may as well think sod it it’s all labelled the same, it’s all bad for you, may as well be happy and have the sweets!

This is what I'm talking about. UPF categorisation suggests you might as well have that bowl of crunchy nut cornflakes instead.

I would like to see these being talked about more. I hadn't even heard of them.

Yes and that’s why the suggested target is 80% healthy home style food not 100%

I think also that they prefer simple for people to understand

if you drill down - some muesli will be much worse than others. Then the food manufacturers squabble and cheat to try and get a better label

what needs to change is the food industry

I was thinking similar while reading a a big low upf account on Instagram earlier. This account was showing organic products from ocado, all staples and coming down a little in price I think as so much demand for them. (M&S) however, i won't swap to organic or to similar low upf things, its lovely and all that. But what if I can no longer afford it? Food is expensive right now and it'll probably only get worse. Am I OK feeding my family poor quality foods? It does bother me a lot, what if with the cost of energy I need to make cutbacks. I've improved what we've eaten as a family and made better choices over the last few months but what if I have to go back?

I agree to an extent. But I don’t think health advice should be tempered by whether people will feel it’s achievable.

Really? I think health advice that is unachievable is basically pointless.

Strictly speaking food is at an almost historic low as a share of typical family income

we are screwed because we pay so much for housing which is at an historic high as a share of family income

and food companies have made huge profits out of degrading the food quality, ensuring its additctive and then we get ill and it’s up to us to sort out for ourselves but anything else would be nanny state

I disagree and think it would be very unfair to hide information from lower income people that can help them make healthier choices for their families. In reality, there is little difference between cheap white and cheap brown sliced bread - but there are some breads which are not UPF - Jason’s sourdough - so useful for people to know.

We need to put pressure on the food manufacturers to improve the nutritional value of their produce. They are selling ‘food’ that makes their customers unhealthy and which is designed to be able to be eaten in excess without people feeling full. As a former obese person, it was a revelation to me that it wasn’t all my fault - the food was designed to be overeaten.

It isn’t unachievable for everyone though

it’s probably achievable by about 80% of the population.

although it probably less than that in practise will do anything as many people prioritise other things like holidays or new tech or outfit over food

Jason sourdough is really expensive

I actually think the main message is that UPF isn’t that bad and loads of things count as UPF that aren’t a problem like the poster who talked about their cereal

basically, anything is UPF if it has a preservative in it is ridiculous

I ignore it, but I didn’t realise people were taking it so seriously until I came on here

You're not wrong, but people really enjoy the pure snobbery of it.

many people thought tobacco was fine

it isn’t

there may be some UPF things that are not especially bad but in many cases the data is hidden

there isn’t a lot we can do about it and it’s even less if you are broke

This comment says a lot about your personal life experience. My income is around average (slightly below) and I can't afford to avoid all UPFs even in 80% of my diet. I don't have time either between coming home from work and everything else I have to do.

I rarely go on holiday and it's always in the UK and camping or similar. I don't have new tech, just a cheap smartphone and a really old tablet that we share. I don't have more clothes than I need and I don't buy "outfits" but individual items of clothing to mix and match when I really need them.

Also regarding the recommendation for 80% of our diets to be non UPF, it still suggests that the other 20% might as well be complete junk compared to less processed convenience items to support efficient home cooking.

UPF is one category but you can use whatever others you want such as high fibre, low sugar etc. etc.

It's all pretty pointless though and people just need to think for themselves. Even people on lower incomes are able to do that

Rarely go on holiday ? “Just” a camping holiday ?
I may have moved on from that but “just” camping was well out of budget for many years

you have some money to prioritise your diet

but as I said around 20% of people will struggle
that’s 1 in 5. You may be in that category but that’s not everyone.

and you admit you earn less than average and you may well live in a slightly more expensive area

and it doesn’t say you can eat complete junk. It assumes you can think for yourself

are you feeling bad that you can’t do better with diet and wanting someone to blame ?

UPFs are the new carbs which replaced fat as the Root of all Dietary Evil. In 10 years the yoyo dieters and orthotexics will pick something else to pin all their hopes on.

@brownbootsandhats are you feeling bad that you can’t do better with diet and wanting someone to blame ? I know this is AIBU and people like a bit of a bun fight but is there really any need for that?

No, that's not what's going on. I'm really comfortable with how my family eat.

It's simply that I can't get behind equating Frosties with Weetabix, I think it's counterproductive to encouraging healthy choices in the real world, and when you replied with some counter-arguments they didn't seem accurate to me for the reasons I stated.