AIBU to think the civil service should have to follow ACAS best practice, the same as other employers?

[MeandT]

Reading this morning about the awful coroners' report on Chloe Moffat taking her own life.

Her employer the Treasury (Civil Service) asked her into an 'informal' meeting, but then took actions in line with a formal disciplinary process (restricting access to her bosses' email etc - she was a PA).

AIBU to expect more from the HR team in a massive organisation like this, as a taxpayer?

Not only are they operating outside national best practice, but to leave a young woman so worried about the potential consequences (which weren't set out because it wasn't an official disciplinary hearing) that she decided to take her own life is just a tragic waste of life for something which really could have been handled so much better.

She was also refused to have someone to accompany her in the meeting (because it was 'informal') - but it is a requirement to allow an employee an extra person to listen in if disciplinary consequences are being considered.

I know of another instance where this happened in Hampshire police last year and the lady concerned took her own life because the matter was handled in such a ham fisted way with threats hanging over her while all the information hadn't even been gathered.

AIBU to expect more from HR professionals and line managers my tax money is funding, when the way to deal with these things in a proportionate and fair way has been set out nationally for donkeys years?

Thoughts and condolences to all of Chloe's family and friends - I hope that you bringing attention to this can stop anyone else from having to go through the pain of losing a loved one because of an honest cock up at work. 😭

AIBU to expect more from HR professionals and line managers my tax money is funding, when the way to deal with these things in a proportionate and fair way has been set out nationally for donkeys years?

You're being highly unreasonable by using someone's death as a virtue-signalled camouflage to combine a chip on your shoulder about the public sector and where/how your tax is spent

It’s not ‘as a tax payer’ is it, it’s as a human. Your taxes shouldn’t factor in to how people are treated at work. It’s a bit grim to make this all about your taxes.

exactly, and they thought that framing it around this tragic event was going to give them immunity for being called out on their bullshit

nope, they've hugely underestimated some of the people on this site

Well I call unfair about that! It's neither about virtue signalling nor about that being more important than it's impact as a human.

But as one of the largest employers in the country, I would absolutely expect them to do better than not to follow the ACAS best practice on how to handle these things.

It's a waste all round.

@MeandTthe civil service is not one homogenous blob. Every government department is a separate legal entity, with different policies and HR departments. Your faux concern and link to “tax payer money” doesn’t work. HMT is less than 0.5% of the entire civil service, it is not one of the biggest employers in the UK, it’s not even big in the CS.

I don’t know the details of this case, but the example you’ve given there (loss of access to manager’s inbox) is not a disciplinary sanction. A sanction is something like a written warning, a loss of bonus, a demotion etc.

the case sounds tragic, but I’m not sure they did anything wrong. Workplaces are entitled to have requirements and uphold them. If when people fall short and this is addressed an individual has such a strong reaction that they take their own life, they were very unwell.

Yes they are supposed to follow ACAS. The fact that serious errors were made here is why this is a news story.

Trying to make this about your taxes is really tasteless.

I agree, it’s about being human, your post made it about being a tax payer and ‘my taxes’ being used for this company.

My DH was in the civil service for 15 years and worked in six different departments during that times, from junior to very senior posts. They absolutely followed ACAS guidelines to the letter and HR was very stringent. He still works in the publics sector (been at three different organisations), and it is the same – far, far better than the three private sector organisations I have been in.

No organisation is exempt from making mistakes with best work practice.

You clearly have an axe to grind and your post is ridiculous.

I'm confused, are you familiar with the detail of the case to make such assessment? It's absolutely valid too have an informal meeting to let the person know it might be coming for whichever reason. It gives them time to prepare. It's much kinder than just getting a letter out of the blue inviting you to a formal meeting.

AIBU to expect more from HR professionals and line managers my tax money is funding, when the way to deal with these things in a proportionate and fair way has been set out nationally for donkeys years?

Unfair?

You've consciously (I assume consciously) chosen to

i/literally construct a post, interweaving these exact words "my tax money is funding" into the story of someone's life ending in a tragic way and then ii/you've hit post.

As for the second part of your second post,

But as one of the largest employers in the country, I would absolutely expect them to do better than not to follow the ACAS best practice on how to handle these things.

This just reads as a double-down, partly because you've opened with the word but, which usually signifies the mind-space of the person is in dismissive mode

So you get to retain criticising procedure

by all means, raise awareness of how this all unfolding to try and prevent similar happening in the future, but don't fold in your beef about paying taxes into it, because that completely obliterates the legitimacy of your first premise

I worked for the civil service, and they always observed the ACAS rules around hiring and firing.

As a current civil servant, they do that doesn't mean everyone behaves as they should or follows guidance.