The only child free friend in the group, always asked to compromise or organise for others.

[RooRooRu]

I sadly don't have kids. I have 2 close friends who have young and young(ish) kids. We have been friends for roughly 10 years. I completely understand that when you have kids your priorities change, and things don't stay the same as when you had less ties. We have always been pretty good at making an effort to see each other, but I feel the effort is now resting firmly with me to organise our catch ups and for me to compromise on where / what / when we do it to fit in with family life.
The time we meet always fits around nap / routine / weekend sport, I'm often asked to rearrange any pre-existing commitments to accommodate them.
It's often left to me to arrange and book what and where we are doing, because after family life and work they 'just need someone to make the decision for them'
The location is always closer to where they live to make it convenient, not close to where I work or live. Never early dinner in the city after work for example, because that's too hard for them but easy for me.
AIBU and I just don't get it because I've not had to manage the juggle?

"I suppose my message is, don’t take it personally, give it a bit of time and be aware that behind the scenes they are probably having a pretty rough time of it"

See, this is the part that as a childfree woman, I disagree with. It implies we don't have any of our own problems, that our lives are plain sailing and we have nothing better to do than sit twiddling our thumbs whilst our friends with children are having it so much worse ' behind the scenes'.For a friendship to work it really is a two way street and both parties need to acknowledge the others needs and act accordingly.

Didn't write the thing about brains.

Do you think I am a man? Just because of Joe? HappyJoe is an slang name that has been around a long time. Happy I presume you know what it means, Joe means just a person. Put them together, it's just a happy person. Doesn't have to be male.

Sorry, is that womensplaning for you? I do hope not. Can't do mansplaining as I am not male.

He was rubbish when they were small.

To be (a little bit) fair to him, his 'list' to make it back to do solo bedtime with 2 small kids so I could go out would also be pretty substantial involving leaving early in the morning, doing double bedtime, sorting food etc.

But regardless of the why's and wherefores, I can say with absolute certainty the vast majority of fathers are like this. I work in a busy career, I'm not a SAHM, and 99% of the women I know who also work full time (as well of course as those who don't) -

• Have the details of the babysitters / childminders so sorts childcare
• On the class whatsapps so knows who the parents are and playdates
• Sorting gifts for friends playdates
• Sort birthday presents, parties, christmas, social plans
• Organise clubs and activities as well as kit, equipment, practice for them
• Mental list of food preferences and phobias etc

I coach a boys' football team in my spare time and so deal with a load of admin with the dads. I've realised that for the vast majority of them it's the one single thing they do. These are all men who would consider themselves 'hands on' dads, and the endless questions I get each week about what their boys should wear to practice, where they need to be and when, then they forget to bring water, forget to bring studs, get aggy when they are reminded (usually blaming mum for packing things wrong). We did a tour last year and I had multiple requests to send them a packing list. For a weekend with their own kids.

So yes, it's not OK. But it is the reality that most women live with. We could all divorce them en masse and set up a big all female commune which I would be in favor of, but I don't think that's happening any time soon.

It’s really tough and I feel for you, it’s very hard bending to families when you’ve not been able to have children and feel it becomes one sided.

My external observation is that there maybe more to your frustration than just the needing to bend to their schedules, I wonder if it’s less about the inconvenience to you and more about the fairness, or lack of.

Unfortunately, having children can severely limit your freedom as an adult. Going out early evening isn’t just hard because you’re shattered (working 2 jobs is tiring, especially when one boss is a stroppy and demanding child). It’s also hard because you can’t leave them at home alone and perhaps their partner has work, commute or commitments that mean they aren’t available to cover.

Friendships are often situationships. They work because your lives align. I’m sure your friends value you lots, but they have other considerations now which maybe at odds with yours.

It might be worth having an open conversation to try to relieve the resentment, but ultimately I think some acceptance has to be in order too. Acceptance that you may need to lean on other child free friends more (or those with older kids), or continue bending to those with little ones.

Your friends aren’t trying to deprioritise you, it’s just incredibly hard to do everything. Having young children can be very tough on relationships too.

I think you need to compromise on location as you need to accept there’s more for them to deal with, but you certainly shouldn’t be the one instigating/organising the meet-ups. If they weren’t bothering I’d take it as just that.

Yes and no. It's the bigger picture of a life. Not everything can be equal all the time. So, I have some friends I always pay for because they are skint for whatever reason. It's never going to be 50/50 and that's fine. Others who have small flats and I always host them as I have a house. I have some friends who have held me as I wept when I had a bereavement and showed up for me every day even when I didn't take their calls. Some of those friends are now underwater with their small kids and we're in different places in life. It's fine - they'll come back around. They'll be there for me later (not weeks later, years later). My way of being there for them right now is not trying to bulldoze my way in when they're busy. And that's OK, life is long.

Your life does naturally alter after having kids. They’re the top priority and you do spend an awful lot of your time ferrying them around or just ensuring they maintain a healthy routine. Your suggestion to meet after work won’t fit into their lives since most parents have to dash to afterschool club/nursery/childminder to collect their DC who then might also have extracurricular clubs to get to.

I basically think you need fellow child free friends who can be more spontaneous and flexible.

In most friendship groups there is usually one who does the organising. I don't think that's unusual. And I think it's understandable that normally the arrangements will fit in with the ones who have children because they will be constable juggling their commitments and there own and when arranging social occasions they will put their children first (as they should). I don't think meeting after work is going to suit many parents.
But that doesn't mean you have to change your arrangements either. If something doesn't suit you you should say.
Ultimately it will depend on how much you want to keep the relationship going. If it no longer works for you just stop arranging things

My DH worked away during the week and I didn't have GP locally to babysit. DS #2 was an absolute nightmare in the evenings so couldn't be punted on to a local teen babysitter, so I essentially didn't have a weeknight free to leave the house for about 6 years at which point my dad died and my mum moved near to us so could babysit sometimes.

I used to invite friends round on weeknights and cook for them because that was the only way I could see people, especially after I went back to work at the end of second mat leave - didn't even see mummy friends during weekdays then so unless people came to me I didn't see anyone who wasn't a work colleague. I don't have a lots of real memories of that time because my kids never slept at the same time so I was utterly exhausted and don't think I was fully functional. I felt a lot like a lone parent during the week as everything was down to me - all the bazillion decisions, and organisation of everything. Doing the organising beyond "come to me, I'll cook" was beyond me, but I get that that can feel like a burden for the OP. Why not suggest taking it in turns - "I really enjoyed seeing you all but I'm slammed next month so can you organise the catch up?" - I might have managed it once in a while if given that specific task.

The fact that they are managing to make time to get together every month is actually pretty amazing. I couldn't have done that because of all the life admin that had to get done in the small window when DH was home, and weekends got much more crowded when they started doing activities that were often at the same time in different places.

The teen years brought different challenges before they could drive themselves places. Am only now finding my time is my own again.

How far away is the City from homes of your friends. Tbh, even without childcare issues I would only do that if I to was working in the City that day.

@MyKindHiker

It’s no wonder more and more women these days are deciding not to have kids. Sounds shit.

I wrote the thing about brains!

Maybe someone didn't like it. Was based on reading a book called 'Matrescence' which I would highly recommend, around neuroplasticity and how a woman's brain physically / literally changes in response to the hormones from pregnancy and childbirth.

It really made me think a lot as I always prided myself on being a great friend. And in the 5 years or so after my kids were born I was totally rubbish. And it's not just explained by being busy - as I was busy before - it was that my brain physically didn't have space for anything more than keeping these small people alive.

So the concept of being fair and equal in friendships at this time just didn't factor. And I think it's interesting there's a real biological factor in why many women seem to change personalities a bit and become basically super-selfish for a while after they have kids.

It's also interesting to consider that most revert to their former personality over time.

They did try and sort it but OP wasn't happy with their suggestion.

It is, for the first 6 years or so.

But I'm finding the big kids bit really fun and of course most of the life I'll have with them will be with them as adults which I think will be really really fun, so swings and roundabouts.

Thankyou, no, it wasn't your post in question, it was a post about brain cells someone else made. If peeked, it was in the quoted text thing under that post you replied to here and would have been clear for you :-)

You're ok!

@MyKindHiker

nah, six years is a long time to be unhappy and run ragged. Life is short.
as I say no wonder so many women are choosing to be child free

It sounds to me like it's a case of your social needs being incompatible at this stage of your life. Yes, you shouldn't always be the one to be having to make all the compromises but seeing friends should be enjoyable, and complicated logistics can make it feel like a chore. It doesn't sound like your friends don't care about you or want to see you, they are just suggesting times/things that are enjoyable and relaxing for them rather than requiring major planning. I personally would much rather see a friend in the daytime at a weekend when I am not tired or rushing to cram things in. I (and all of my parents friends) am on the young child schedule where we are all awake by 6am and are ready for bed by 9pm so the thought of dragging myself out after 7pm bedtime on a weekday for a meal or drinks doesn't excite, me so it's not something I would think to plan. I might go if someone suggested it to make an effort, but its very unlikely that I would think to organise it as I would be just as happy chilling on the sofa with my husband and a boxset.

I don't disagree with your comments; I've been that person too who has given more when a friend is going through mental ill health or needs more support etc. But my issue is some women using the child card continuously in order to dictate terms of the friendship and to insist on arrangements which primarily, suit themselves. There is no reciprocal understanding, that WE may be that friend in need at points in time.

Agreed. So then we’re back to the basic situation where three friends just have difficulty finding times and activities they all agree on/can make because of conflicting schedules/caring responsibilities. The OP, like her friends, always has the option of saying ‘That doesn’t work for me —drive is too far’ or whatever.

There can be no denying that people with children have more juggling to do.
They have all the stuff non parents have alongside the child care, and organising childcare, after school activities etc.. It is like having two full time jobs alongside still trying to fit in the cooking, cleansing, shopping etc and keep a social life .
I think it's amazing that OP and her friends manage to meet up once a month.

But they can't leave their children alone. Childcare issues are not an excuse they are a reality!

Whilst early drinks or dinner in the city is very convenient for working, child free people, it really doesn't work, under most circumstances, for parents. This is the worst and most labour intensive part of most parents' days and believe me, we mourn the loss of the casual, easy, after-work, socialising.

That first warm evening of the summer, the one when the whole city is standing on a pavement or squeezing into a beer garden somewhere and relishing that sunshine... we are rushing to childcare pickup, and then home, like every other day, to cook a dinner, clean up after it, wrestle children into bed and prepare for the same again tomorrow.

It's not so much about compromising - we would love to compromise, but compromises have to take place within the realm of what is actually possible and often what you suggest just isn't possible. What is possible is often meeting later, meeting closer to home, meeting at a time when the other parent is available to pick up the slack (in many families, one parent struggles through the morning version of this and the other one does the evening, to allow them both to fit in a work day, so it's not as simple as the other party just picking up the slack to accommodate after work drinks).

It might not be fair or reasonable but it is the reality so your options are a) accept that you will need to be more flexible or b) find new friends.

There are some dads around are there not? For occasions as a catch up with an old friend?

It's not down to you to manage every aspect of this, but do think about what you can do to handle this in a way that's flexible but also protects your own boundaries. So maybe answer this with 'ok, can anyone else make the city that evening?' and then perhaps just meet one friend if they're the one who will come? If people don't like it, ask what they'd suggest, don't assume. And don't be afraid to point out the pattern, eg 'I'd rather not drive to X as I've done that the last four times we met, so could we find somewhere in the middle?'

It says in the post that OP has to consider the convenience of the folk with kids. Not how it works for her.