DC accused of bullying

[PeachyPotatoes]

I received a text on Friday evening from a parent at my daughter’s school. She got my number from a nursery group chat. She alleged that my daughter, 7, is bullying her daughter who is in the same class by; kicking her under the table, bumping into her deliberately, inviting her over to play they telling her to go away, and the worst of all, throwing her lunchbox across the playground after inviting her to sit with her and her two friends.
I was absolutely shocked by these allegations; my daughter is kind and friendly, confident and just lovely. However, I’m not there at school, so I told the Mother I would speak with my DC.
I asked DC what she thought about this other girl in the first instance. She said she was “alright” but that they weren’t friends. I asked if anything had happened between them. She described the lunchbox incident, but said it was another child who had done it and my DC had helped pick up the contents of the lunchbox. I then explained this child was going home upset every day after school, allegedly because of her. DC had no idea why she would say that.
I then phoned the Mother and outlined what my DC had said. The Mother was friendly, but adamant that my DC was systematically bullying her DC. I advised her to contact the school, as this is where these alleged incidents have taken place. I also emailed the school to inform them.
The school replied and said they were completely unaware of any issues between the two DC and had any of that been going on, the teacher would have seen it. They advised my DC to speak with the teacher should anything happen with the other DC.

I’m so taken aback by all of this. Firstly that the Mother, who I don’t know, got my number from a completely unrelated source. Secondly the allegations which are awful. When I spoke with my DC regarding this, I warned her should anything be happening at all, it ends now. She assured me nothing is happening.

Im absolutely torn. I believe my DC, but I’m of course concerned for the other DCs welfare. The school are keeping a close eye. If my DC is innocent, why have these allegations been made? According to the Mother, she has been discussing this with other parents. I’m not happy my DC has been labelled a bully when there is no evidence. Where do I take it from here?

Aibu to believe my DC?

Well it depends. If she didn’t see it being thrown until the OP’s DD walked towards it to pick it up…

I would suggest saying to the mum - I am happy to liaise with school on this. I am happy to host if you want to bring your DD round for a chat together about what is happening - or will come to yours - and if this is true will come down on her like a tonne of bricks. But given accounts vary at this stage, stop traducing my daughter’s name in the playground.

It can happen though. I was in this position at school once, though older. Another girl and I didn’t get on and one day her parents came to speak to the Head and told them lots of untrue things like me throwing a book at their daughter, which never happened.

Op I would say just leave it now unless something else comes up. If any parents say anything to you, just tell them the truth and that the school have not witnessed anything.

Yes, true. A little girl can be all sweet and lovable at home but vicious and spiteful at school. Children can be utterly vile to one another, especially girls. Never underestimate the depths of cruelty a child can sink to. It's horrifying. They don't think like adults.

I'm quite an empathetic person and would never dream of bullying someone, yet I did some nasty things as a kid (and had nasty things done to me). I deeply regret it, but I was a different being.

I would say the mum is sick and tired off seeing her daughter upset all the time. The school sounds crap at dealing with bullying, I'd be going to the parent to. I would also want someone to tell me if my child was being a bully.

I know it can't happen, but with all the technology available these days it should be easy to fit children in these types of cases with hidden cameras/recording devices. The truth would then be there for everyone to see. Years of distress could be avoided.

I would tell your DC to stay away from the other child completely and inform the school of it and asking if it is possible to have a meeting with this mother and child and you and your child at school since this is where the incidents are occurring.

I’ve been bullied and have been accused of bullying by someone because I didn’t want to be their friend, not out of hate or massive dislike but because they constantly talked over people, were incredibly loud, and expected immediate attention or help from someone when it was obvious they were busy and they could ask someone else for help.

With the lunchbox, reads like it was quite public so if teachers didn’t see it, maybe other children did. Generally, kids know who the bullies are in school even if the parents don’t. Even at 7 years old.

Sorry but the line from the school that the teacher would have seen your daughter kicking another child under the table or "accidentally" barging into her is complete bs and minimising of bullying by the school and as anyone who was bullied or has a child who was bullied knows its an outright lie.
So yes you are wrong to just believe your perfect nice child especially when she admitted she doesn't like tge girl and the lunchbox issue but claimed a version of the old a big boy did it and ran away line.
Your daughter is a bully and if you dont nip it in the bud now is only going to get worse

I think you've already taken the necessary steps. Hopefully the school will help by keeping an eye on things.

Personally - whilst I understand it's uncomfortable - I wouldn't mind the parent contacting me directly (if they're keeping things civil and polite).
I would much rather know if my child was acting like this (or involved in any way), and it gives you an opportunity to address it your way rather than through then official school process.

I would also keep an open mind. Plenty of lovely kind kids bully someone. And I've seen relatively young kids be sneaky about it so that the adults have no awareness- they're not stupid. No way the teacher would see things that happened at lunchtime, playtime, under the desk, or in the hustle and bustle of getting ready to go out. That's probably why the mum felt so desperate as that type of bullying is so hard to prove. Both kids know that one of them barged into the other deliberately but if the hurt child complains the other can easily claim its just an accident. I'd ask your daughter again, I'd make it clear that you aren't suggesting she is lying but you know how hard it is to admit when you've done something wrong and tell her she won't be in trouble if she tells the truth about anything. It's normal for kids to do the wrong thing sometime. I think that's all you can do though. But I'd definitely keep an open mind. It doesn't mean she is a monster, i think at this age kids are realising that excluding others can make their bond within the group that isn't being excluded, tighter, and feel power over the one who is being bullied.

Teachers and schools do get it wrong. I've seen a child bully others in such a subtle way it was hard to prove (there was always a reason, she 'forgot' that she'd promised to partner with someone (every day), the game was only a 3 person game so it wasn't her fault that the 4th couldn't play (it wasn't a 3 person game), she wasn't ignoring someone repeatedly she just didn't hear, she didn't mean to yank their bag off she just tripped and tried to stop herself, she had forgotten that a child's parent had died before she discussed (completely out of context) that child's parent, others must have been mistaken or misheard her saying mean things about them as she was talking about something else (eg it wasn't 'Louise smells it was peas smell) she wasn't making a game of spying on some kids it was just coincidence she was behind a wall watching them multiple times etc etc etc. Any time any children retaliated it tended to be in a more obvious way and her mum was meeting the teacher to complain. But her bullying never got picked up and moved around different people every few weeks and was impossible to prove, and her mum thought she was so sweet and lovely. When some kids tried to sort it out with her directly (eg asking what they'd done to stop her talking to them) there was a flat denial. She never admitted her part in anything to her mum.

No it isn't as using a body worn camera to a child in school is a massive safeguarding breach.
Honestly what you are suggesting is outrageous and potentially criminal especially if your hidden camera records other children getting changed for gym etc

Going to the school is the right thing. I’d not be impressed with a ‘we didn’t see it’ attitude though because teachers don’t see half of it. How can they!

Either her child or your child is lying. Please don’t assume because your child said it wasn’t them, that it wasn’t. There are plenty of kids who are horrible to others at school and act like butter wouldn’t melt at home.
It’s also pretty weird that a 7 year old would assign the wrong child to throwing a lunch box. However as you can’t be sure it was your daughter, I’d just let any further incidents be dealt with at the school. You’ve down the right thing by saying you’ll speak to your child as there is nothing worse than a parent denying their child could have done anything.

Equally if their child is lying you’d be best placed to have your child keep their distance from them!

The mother should not have contacted you directly. Any issues go through the school. Block the mother and any issues you become aware of you communicate via the school.
On one occasion another mother tracted my number down and contacted me to complain about my son bullying her son. They'd already been told by the school not to contact me over these allegations. I passed it all back to the school. They very firmly dealt with the parents. My son denied the allegations and when it was explored the child admitted he misheard what had been said........I could tell by my son's reaction when I chatted with him that he was being truthful.
My daughter was accused of saying various things to one friend, who passed it onto another (all out of school, but school friends). The mothers contacted me directly. When I spoke to my daughter, she was gobsmacked and reported a completely different conversation...... I can absolutely tell when my daughter is lying, and she knows I can, so I totally believed her. Fortunately my husband overheard parts of the chat, so he could back my daughter. Also what was allegedly said was not at all my daughter's style!
One of the mother's admitted that her daughter is quite a liar but she believed her this time because why would she make it up?! We did have to get the school involved in the end because one of the girls started spreading stuff about my daughter and what she'd allegedly said! School were brilliant and so glad it was nearly the end of term!!

There’s no smoke without fire @PeachyPotatoes. Just be prepared to learn your dc is lying to you

I literally began my post with the words, I know it can't happen.

I work in a school - there are many children who lie to your face especially if they've got caught doing something bad! I can't see why the child whose lunch ended up on the floor would lie about who did it - surely she's looking for someone to step in and help - so naming the wrong person wouldn't solve anything.

However it is very difficult to get to the truth if you didn't see it yourself. I would tell your child that the school are going to be keeping a close eye on them - so if she did do it, she has a chance to stop without getting into trouble.

You’ve done what you can but I would sit mine down and say that if I hear any accusations coming again I will take it seriously and that I would be sorely disappointed if any of it turned out to be true. I think yours has probably done something tbh best to warn her off firmly now to reduce the chance of anything else happening.

A similar thing happened to me at school. A ‘sweet’ boy used to pinch me and kick me under the table. My mum raised it with school who said it was most unlikely but they’d keep an eye open. Fortunately school dealt with it once they established I was telling the truth.

I hope your daughter isn’t lying on this occasion, but they’re all capable of it.

Hmmm, we all like to think our kids are “just lovely”.

I think you’re right to hand it to the school to take over, and I would follow up with them frequently to ensure they are taking it seriously, keeping an eye and helping to get to the bottom of what’s really happening.

I know how crafty kids can be about presenting a good side to grown ups and a different persona to other kids.

It could be that even if your daughter isn’t the one throwing the lunchbox and bullying, the poor lass being bullied could be associating her strongly with the actual bullies here to the point where she’s not seeing much of a difference? For example, I remember finally reporting a group of bullies to a teacher, but one girl, who wasn’t actively participating in the bullying but was friends with those who were, ended up getting told off for this as well, which wasn’t fair.

If your daughter is kind and confident, it might be a good opportunity to chat to her about how horrible bullying is, and that people being bullied need a strong, courageous friend who will stand by them, support them and tell the bullies to leave her alone. Perhaps she can use her kindness and confidence to be the friend this poor girl needs?

Your daughter has more reason to lie than the other child, she’s probably worried she’s in trouble. Annoying that the teacher confidently said she would have definitely noticed-it’s simply impossible. Not saying she definitely is guilty but I wouldn’t be quick to 100% dismiss this other parent.

the Girls are young and learning social norms and boundaries, so if your daughter has displayed this unkind behaviour it doesn’t mean she’s evil but obviously needs nipping in the bud.

i agree that communication should be through the school now and if politely tell the other parent this and then stop engaging.

I have a few problems with this.

1. that the teacher “would have seen” is total BS. A teacher didn’t see a girl systemically abusing my son until she leapt on top of him and beat the shit out of him. (He refuses to raise a hand to a girl)
2. the other child 100% got her lunchbox thrown. Your own daughter admits that. So she IS being bullied.
3. the girl who is being bullied being so wrong about your daughter doing the bullying
4. that you didn’t instantly apologise, because your daughter has had a hand in SOMETHING, even if it’s not all the bullying, she’s involved somehow, otherwise her name wouldn’t be on the other child’s lips. I take serious issues with parents like you “oh my sweet little angel couldn’t do anything wrong” when actually I’ve seen their sweet little angel forcibly hold my son down and kick his back so hard she left boot imprints. All communication should be through the school from now on and if/when your daughter is found to be the bully, I suggest you ask for a proper, in-person meeting to explain exactly what your daughter did wrong and to appropriately apologise in front of the other child. As well as reassuring her, that will reassure her parents you are being serious too.

To all the folk saying I shouldn’t immediately believe my daughter; I said in my OP I was shocked. Not that I think she’s an angel who would never put a foot wrong. I told the Mother who contacted me that whatever is happening to her daughter is awful and that if my DC has anything to do with it, it will stop now. I haven’t just let things go. We’ve had numerous serious chats.
in reference to the lunchbox incident, my child named exactly who threw the lunchbox, and said there were two teachers standing there who saw the whole thing. So in regards to that, I do believe her. I can also tell when my child is lying.

I also didn’t instantly apologise because I don’t know all the facts, this came completely out of the blue and I firmly believe the school are best placed to investigate.

Can instantly tell what sort of parent you are when you say “I can tell when my child is lying” and it’s the sort of parent who is a total nightmare to deal with.

Absolutely this. Some parents are really quite deluded when it comes to their own children, and there are many examples on this thread - but you will never convince them otherwise!

Personally I can often tell when my children are lying. Other times they will both give me a different, plausible explanation as to which of them started some fight or other, and frankly it is 50/50 as to which one is telling the truth!

Any parent who claims to know with 100% accuracy that their school aged child (especially a secondary school aged child) is lying is living in a comforting fantasy.

My friends daughter was in a similar situation, as the target. You’d be amazed at what kids can get away with behind the teachers backs. I don’t think it’s possible that it’s gotten to this point with multiple bullying events and your daughter isn’t involved to some degree.

Saying the school should take care of it is a cop out.