AIBU to think staying at home with children is undervalued?

[Amby99]

I’m not ignorant of the fact that staying at home isn’t financially possible or desirable for everyone, and I don’t think children who go to nursery are disadvantaged whatsoever . There are brilliant nurseries, brilliant working mums, and plenty of happy, healthy children being raised that way (and fulfilled and happy mothers)
However, I do wonder whether society (or the government) has become so focused on measuring “productivity” through paid employment that we’ve started to undervalue the work involved in raising a child.
Badenoch saying that the government doesn’t want to “punish working parents” in relation to childcare costs … it made me wonder why being a SAHM is so rarely viewed as valuable or productive in its own right.
Preparing my baby’s first solids, BF him, reading, playing, taking him outside, talking to him, letting him explore and generally being available. It feels like important work, yet because it isn’t paid it often seems invisible.
There are of course many advantages to nursery, and that work can be important for a mother’s identity, finances, career and mental health.
But why does the conversation seem to focus so heavily on encouraging parents back into paid employment, while choosing to provide that childcare yourself is rarely encouraged or valued in the same way? I’m not talking about mothers that sit at home all day feeding their child McDonald’s and claiming every benefit under the sun. I get why they may be encouraged back into the workforce and their children would be better off at nursery. BUT I’m sick of having to feel guilty of my choice to stay home. Every parent I know who was a parent in the 90’s stayed at home and it wasn’t so frowned upon.

I just think it should be seen as a worthwhile and valuable choice rather than something that needs to be justified because you’re “not working”.

That was a lot of complaining about your experiences for someone who isn't resentful.

And I've explained myself. It feels classist (or at least, ignorant of the experiences of many lower/working class people) to assume that everyone has a career they love. If you don't like that, that's your problem.

No, I can't . I don't think it's a good idea to try and read too much between the lines on these subjects. Just stick to the main message. It's much too easy to see things that are not there.

Well I think she was! And she knew how she sounds when posting.

I think you could be a bit less sensitive. It's really tedious when several people go after one poster, especially when there is no good reason .
You and several others are reading much too much into the comment, taking far too much offence and generally going over the top.
Plenty of people do feel they are wage slaves, so it's fine for @ThankYouNigel to say she doesn't want to be one. Perhaps that's how she would have felt if she had gone back to paid employment.

Yes, the idea that people (both men and women, parents and the child free) are wage slaves, locked into the rat race, or working to make someone else rich, and the theory of the hedonic treadmill, or the old stereotypical deathbed regret of wishing you'd spent more time with family and less time working, etc, are not new or controversial concepts.

@ThankYouNigel might have some views that not everyone agrees with, but really she's just being unapologetically positive and vocal about her choices - clearly she feels really strongly about how she's chosen to live her life, and that comes through in her posts. I can see how that bluntness (fervour?) might put people's backs up, but I'm not sure it's particularly useful to take offence.

Yes, he does actually, and prefers being at home too. Fortunately he has a term time only job.

Thanks for this- exactly, I live my life for optimum happiness. Why would I choose to be a SAHM then moan about it? I do own it- it’s been fantastic!

If we're going to talk about deathbed regret, my mother bitterly regretted having been a SAHP until the very end of her life. She loved being at home with us, but she felt that she had wasted her potential and wished that she had done things differently. I wish she had too.

It’s less about being a wage slave, than about being sensible and logical with your financial situation and your child’s future. Having only one parent working is a higher-risk situation where you may end up in a difficult situation if that person loses their job. You are also making an active decision not to invest in your child’s future financially.

One of the main reasons why I'm not a SAHM is because my mum was one.

My mum was a SAHM until my younger brother started school. I don’t remember her staying at home with me tbh though.

She was then only able to progress back into a career because my dad paid for her to do another qualification.

So was mine, it did none of us any good. I'd have loved to have a mother with a career! Or even a job she enjoyed.

That's not the typical deathbed regret, however. Most men (and women) wish that they had worked less and spent more time with their children, whether that's being stay at home, or having shorter hours. And I think research shows that the vast majority of people who choose to be stay at home parents don't regret it.

I'm sorry your mother regretted it - what potential exactly did she feel she'd wasted? What did she wish she'd done, that she didn't do? And why didn't she do it?

Same. Seeing her regrets was a major motivator for both me and my sister.

I’d like to see this research.

while I agree that not many people on their death bed wish they’d worked more, I don’t think “I wish I’d done more for myself” is a rare one. Women who wish they’d had the opportunity to pursue their passions, had financial independence, used their education, etc. Especially older women for whom staying at home wasn’t a choice but an expectation.

I felt tempted to pack it all in when I struggled to return to work after my first. I didn’t, and went part time instead. In hindsight I am super happy I stuck with it, I spent 5 years in university education, and another 3 qualifying, to have thrown that away because I was looking down at my coping baby would, for me, would have been a mistake and I would have regretted it. Especially now my kids are older and I know I have managed to be there for them and parent the way I wanted to while working. When I was making the choice the whole “women should stay with their babies, nursery is the devil” haunted me though.

First of all, on the face of it, staying at home is "worthless" to society. It's only benefiting you and your kid, not society. That's OK, it's worth something to you - just not to the rest of us.

Secondly, this "nursery workers are strangers" idea is bizarre. The person who cares for your child at nursery is only a stranger the first time they meet. After that, they are a known caregiver in your child's life. A grandparent is a "stranger" the first time your child meets them, as well.

I’m pretty glad I work full time tbh. My dh has just been made redundant and it means we can still pay the mortgage! I don’t need a pat on the back but it means we aren’t scared about losing our house.

Eh? They're not out in a field with a bunch of other babies. They're being cared for art a ratio of 1:2 or 1:3 when young, similar to having a parent with 2-3 kids. They have the advantage of having an attachment with their parents and with their key nursery worker. Just like if they had an attachment with a grandparent our aunt, as well as their parents.

She was an incredibly intelligent, insightful and empathetic woman and I think she wished that she had somehow used her talents to make more of a difference in the world - of course, she knew that she had made a difference by raising us, but she felt that she could have done so much more, and on a larger scale. And I don't doubt that she could have done.

I think she also felt that she could have done more for herself. More that would have given her a sense of personal achievement and accomplishment. It wasn't about money - my dad earned well and happily shared everything with her. It was more that, she would hear my dsis and me talking about stuff at work, or my dad reminiscing about his career, and she felt desperately sad that she didn't have her own stories in the same way. That wasn't how we saw it, of course, but it was how she felt. I think she felt like she was just playing a supporting character role in everyone else's lives and that she hadn't really fully lived her own.

She did do quite a lot of voluntary work, which helped, but she had lost her confidence after being at home for years and never managed to work it up enough to build a career in later life. It was incredibly hard for her after we left home, her elderly parents had died and she suddenly felt that she had no purpose in life. I think that was probably the hardest period for her.

Her grandchildren later gave her great joy, and she was a truly wonderful grandmother, but even that wasn't enough to fill the void that she perceived. She was immensely proud of the careers that dsis and I had built for ourselves but I think seeing our lives made her wistful as well - she saw that our kids were happy and thriving, and that we could maintain relationships with them which were every bit as close and loving as those that she had enjoyed with us, while also contributing to the world on a much larger stage. I guess it was bittersweet for her - she absolutely wouldn't have wanted it any other way, but it made her realise what she could have had if the world had been different when we were younger.

I'm not saying that other SAHPs will feel the same way when they're older, I'm just answering the question that was asked.

I always find these comments about "wage slaves" and "deathbed regrets" ironic given that most SAHMS are only able to stay at home because their "wage slave" husbands allow them too.

Comments about being a wage slave, deathbed regrets etc are only ever aimed at mums going to work. I wonder if the husbands of these posters have the same comments aimed at them?

I can't find the study I read (some years ago), but I did find that (as expected) women are happiest doing what they want to do, which seems like an incredibly obvious conclusion that doesn't really need a study!

I think it's interesting that you think 'I wish I'd done more for myself' would necessarily correlate to paid employment, though. Again, most likely only in people who have a vocation or a career - and even then, not always. There seems to be a real fixation in regards to people's work being the majority of their identities, for many on Mumsnet - perhaps it's a cultural difference.

Why did it haunt you?

Mine did too. She had an incredible career in her 20s and early 30s and then had children and basically never went back to work aside from a few casual and volunteer roles.

She was a very kind and loving mother in most ways but she was desperately resentful and unhappy about the way her world shrunk after she had kids. She really really regretted giving up her job. She felt financially trapped in the marriage to my dad (who was unfaithful and drank) and bored and isolated. Her words not mine.

Her obvious bitterness about not being able to reestablish herself in work has influenced me a huge amount.

I think its different today in that it is easier to return after a career break than it was in the 1970s so I think stopping work to raise children is not the work death sentence it once was.

But I have always known that this silly truism about no one on their deathbed ever wishes they had worked harder is a load of rubbish. A large amount of women trapped in bad marriages wish they had worked harder.

Oh yes, my husband feels like a wage slave. He likes his job, but he'd love to be able to never work again and pursue his passions - unfortunately, someone has to make the money, and my part time job wouldn't support us.

Is there a reason you wont work harder and let him pursue his passions?

It's a great shame that she never did anything about it, then, if it bothered her throughout her life so much.

I have great- and grandmothers who had careers, even after marriage, so it's not like it was impossible for determined women back in the day, if their husbands were supportive. Although of course, it wasn't the norm!