Would Labour voters be upset if joining the EU meant they could no longer tax children’s education?

[Blarneyspoco]

Taxing children’s education is banned as part of EU membership. If the U.K. rejoined the EU, would Labour supporters be upset that they can no longer levy the tax or would it be seen as a necessary compromise.

“The change in VAT exempt law means that VAT payable on voluntary private education and vocational training as from January 2025.
Fixed that for you.”

Sorry @TheFishFish - there was nothing VOLUNTARY about applying it mid way through an academic year, retrospectively and to kids taking A levels and GCSEs. It was a full on frontal attack for those kids.
Had it applied at transition points only and with wider SEND exemptions, then you might have had a leg to stand on with the “voluntary bit”.

It was implemented in a really nasty and spiteful way.

In fact I distinctly remember it being one of the policies Reeves gleefully announced just as she got in. Well she should not have because eventually she got bullied out anyway. If you succumb to bully type thinking in the first place, you will ultimately be bullied yourself.

It's still a voluntary tax, in the same way that any form of VAT is. If you don't like VAT, you don't pay for the service it's applied to.

This is fundamentally different to what the OP is claiming making their whole argument based on a completely false premise.

Nail on the head. She was a hideous individual and thankfully got what she deserved. She hadn't a clue what she was doing and was a grifter. More fool Starmer for appointing her - he may well still be PM if he'd have got rid sooner.

You've asked this question and say no-one will answer it.

Although I don't have a strong opinion either way, and it won't effect how I vote, I do understand the logic of taxing private education. This is despite having sent DC to private schools, and now helping to fund DGC to attend privately. Obviously, I wouldn't shed a tear if the VAT was removed again, as it would save me money (if the school passed the full amount back, which I sincerely doubt).

My logic is this- VAT is a tax on goods and services. It applies to most goods or services that we buy. I am purchasing private education as a service. Yes, there are numerous exemptions, but if I was designing the tax system, private education wouldn't leap out at me as something necessarily deserving of an exemption, particularly when things that are far more essential aren't exempt (broadband, electric, gas for e.g.) and the cost hits people far poorer than me. Logically, I think I've been lucky it was exempt for as long as it was.

I think this thread demonstrates that some people would probably have really benefited from a private education.

All three were bad, he was the worst tbf.

As was the decision to withdraw the tax exemptions for Motability - the result is now much higher pricing which will preclude huge numbers of severely disabled people who would have benefited from the scheme, and will probably mean job losses for existing customers as at the end of their lease, they cannot afford to replace the vehicle that allows them to travel to work. And yet that policy was met with something akin to glee in some quarters.

“It's still a voluntary tax, in the same way that any form of VAT is. If you don't like VAT, you don't pay for the service it's applied to.
This is fundamentally different to what the OP is claiming making their whole argument based on a completely false premise.”

No @TheFishFish because during the academic year it is a continuing service that had already started. Anyone with half a sense and some cash savings would have paid upfront for that year before it came in formally.
And they did it that way simply to catch as many people out as possible! Which is really nasty and stressful for families at an already stressful academic time.

Yes, down with voluntary children’s education choices comrade. This is exactly why the EU protects plurality of education.

The choice is not being taken away from anyone.

Try to keep up.

Still waiting for those figures showing the introduction of this measure has reduced tax income, by the way.

You are arguing a completely different point. The timing of when it was introduced was going to cause problems whenever it was, and yes, of course disrupting young people's education at any time is not a good thing.

But it's irrelevant to the basic point of order that OP is basing their argument on a completely false statement.

It was never intended to reduce income tax. The stated aim was to put the money raised into state education to improve it - still waiting for figures showing how state education has been improved because of it. I suspect we'll be waiting for eternity because it was all about Labours' love of hate, spite and envy.

I am not arguing a irrelevant point at all @TheFishFish
No the timing did not have the cause such a problem.
They could have said you cannot prepay from X date but given families a whole academic years notice and exam years two. That would have been the reasonable thing to do if it were not driven by spite in the first place.

So given this is what they chose to do to families, there is no justification whatsoever of this policy. Ever. Because it was nastily implemented with glee and spite. And the relevant ministers have all had to go anyway.

It's not relevant to the fact that OP is misrepresenting the truth of the matter, but feel free to carry on ranting if you like.

Of course the choice has been taken away for some people.

Labours policy advisors has the figure at 10% reduction in independent pupils before it crosses into a net loss. We’re currently at between 6 and 6.5% so it’s probably still a net positive for tax payer, that tracking up though.

OP has claimed to have figures showing that tax take has reduced as a direct result of the application of VAT on private education.

It's those figures I'm waiting on. Forever, obviously, because they don't exist.

In fact, we could say the same thing about Brexit.

If we had not gotten the shittest of shittiest deals that Johnson was happy to crash out on and we would have done something more reasonable (of which there were plenty of options) - then it would likely not have been the huge disaster that it has proven to be.
How you implement something 100 per cent matters, always.

Most state schools are so shit they aren't a viable choice for anyone with any sense. Our local one only achieves 55% of kids getting level 4 in English. After 11 years of state education 45% of kids can barely write their own name, It should be considered a national disgrace!

When did any government of any colour ever give a year’s notice of a tax increase, let alone two? The more usual form is to raise tax on alcohol/cigarettes and bring it in from midnight the same day. I remember an increase in fuel duty being announced at 4pm and coming into force two hours later.

Another thing that poor voted for because they didn't want other people to have nice things.

I didn’t claim to have the figures, I asked if you were shown the figures showing it was a net loss would you change your mind.

I think in Finland schools aren't allowed to charge tuition fees.
I'd be fine with private schools not having to pay VAT if it meant we could rejoin the EU. I'd never vote Tory as they accidentally bumbled out of the single market the last time we trusted them with the economy and the waste of public money spent on Brexit for no benefit is sickening.

The OP claims to have figures proving the policy has reduced the tax take.

@blossomtoes - they gave plenty of notice on the vape ban! Because pleasing vape business owners and Chinese vape importers was clearly more important than families with SEND kids and kids doing A levels/GCSEs.