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Kemi B - the best form of welfare is a well paying job...

633 replies

Oofftheflooff · 04/10/2026 09:18

She is absolutely right isn't she? Discussing the triple lock pension challenge and instead focusing on getting people into work. Do you agree with her ? Working 3 or 6 or 9 hours to then top up with benefits isn't the way forward (not including disabilities in here )

OP posts:
Havanananana · 05/10/2026 12:21

Zzxzzz · 05/10/2026 12:01

If you don't provide the welfare itself then maybe the labour market bargaining position changes.

Anyhow you also need to look at the profit margins these companies are making..... Retail is razor thing, how are they magically going to pay everyone more. Is the pay actually that bad?

At some point aren't people expected to budget accordingly and live within their means?

If you don't provide welfare and remove the minimum wage then the balance of power shifts even further towards the employers - employees would be forced to take any job at any wage just to put food on the table. Sweatshop Britain - coming to a town near you if Reform and the Conservatives form the next government and spelled out a decade ago in Britannia Unchained.

Retail businesses in the UK are very profitable, even if the margins are thin. When ALDI and Lidl first entered the UK market it was because they were amazed at the higher profit margins that the UK retailers were making compared with what they were making in Europe. ALDI also happen to be the retailer that pays its shop staff the highest wages in the UK when compared with the other grocery retailers.

People should live within their means, but if wages are insufficient to pay for even the basic necessities such as housing, utilities and food, what are they supposed to do? The government could withdraw housing support - the argument being that all this does is inflate rents and put money into the pockets of the landlords - but if this resulted in rents falling there would be an outcry from the landlords (including many Conservative MPs) and if house values fell the ordinary home owners (who mostly vote Conservative) would risk being hit by negative equity, so they all complain about subsidising welfare recipients while themselves benefitting from the inflated rents and house values.

nearlylovemyusername · 05/10/2026 12:55

No need to go far to prove her point

Pension is utterly terrible. Any advice much appreciated due to current panic! | Mumsnet

OP on this thread is 50, she worked 9 years part time and 2 years full time, but during this years she had two mat leaves. She is fully sponsored by tax payers, lives in a 3/4 bed house in a lovely area. She says she has AuDHD and is overwhelmed, but she was able to hold a job for some years. She's likely to live another 40-50 years paid for by taxpayers.

It's no wonder our economy is suffocating under taxation because dwindling number of taxpayers have to subsidise ever growing number of recipients like her.

Cut welfare bill, invest released money into tax reduction and building of social housing.

TheWordWomanIsTaken · 05/10/2026 12:57

NorthernJim · 04/10/2026 23:14

Yes, except there isn't enough work any more. The jobs/labour market has been decimated by online stuff, ai and automation. 20 years ago 10's of thousands of people were employed in call centres. Now there's far, far fewer. Almost every high st bank has closed, all those jobs gone. Our manufacturing industry has shrivelled to almost nothing. So far it's mostly been limited to basic, semi skilled stuff, but now ai has skilled work firmly in its sights.

Obviously the state won't want to admit it, but the welfare system that's sustaining the lazy lot from having to work is helping massively to keep unemployment rates down, and make jobs market less oversaturated with supply.

Obviously, this is not a good situation to be in, the wider implactions are huge. Western economies (particularly ours) are in a death spiral and the long term outlook is depressing.

So it's all well and good saying get people off be efits and back out working, but the reality is we don't have enough work for them.

So why are we still issuing work visas for people to come and do low paid jobs?

IzzyLeng · 05/10/2026 12:59

Just seen a thing from cbs who have spoken to the top 20 economists in the USA who reckon that unemployment could triple in the next decade. I certainly think it’s going to get worse.

AgeingMillennial · 05/10/2026 13:03

TheWordWomanIsTaken · 05/10/2026 12:57

So why are we still issuing work visas for people to come and do low paid jobs?

Well, exactly. It’s laziness. A commute of 30 minutes on here is seen as a human rights abuse, but it’s fine for immigrants to do it.

randomchap · 05/10/2026 13:04

AgeingMillennial · 05/10/2026 13:03

Well, exactly. It’s laziness. A commute of 30 minutes on here is seen as a human rights abuse, but it’s fine for immigrants to do it.

Human rights abuse? You really are talking rubbish.

19lottie82 · 05/10/2026 13:07

notmoredirtywashing · 05/10/2026 10:58

@Havanananana

thank you for this analysis.

I have a young adult son still living at home and can’t get a job anywhere! He applies for entry level jobs constantly and rarely even get a reply.

easy to say “get a job” when there are hardly any out there.

Has he tried multiple recruitment agencies? It’s pretty easy to get immediate start work, if you’re not fussy.

AmberTigerEyes · 05/10/2026 13:09

Just had a thought about the best form of welfare is a well paying job comment. Maybe she was talking about herself? After all her job is paid for out of the same pot as welfare.

HarryBlaster · 05/10/2026 13:11

TheFairyCaravan · 04/10/2026 09:46

Yet so many public sector jobs are so badly paid that they need to be topped up by UC. Soldiers, teachers, nurses, other hospital staff, prison officers all can’t make ends meet on their pay alone. When Keir Starmer became PM and gave these people pay rises (DS1 got the biggest one of his career) Kemi Badenoch kicked off about it. She can’t have it both ways.

This is the case for most in the majority of jobs at the moment, not just public sector. I’m sick of these whining when the rest of us are hard up too, thanks to the crazy, ridiculous cost of living crisis we’re currently stuck in. Myself and my partner are both earning the most we have ever earned between us for 20 years but we’re absolutely counting the pennies and constantly budgeting.

Zzxzzz · 05/10/2026 13:45

Havanananana · 05/10/2026 12:21

If you don't provide welfare and remove the minimum wage then the balance of power shifts even further towards the employers - employees would be forced to take any job at any wage just to put food on the table. Sweatshop Britain - coming to a town near you if Reform and the Conservatives form the next government and spelled out a decade ago in Britannia Unchained.

Retail businesses in the UK are very profitable, even if the margins are thin. When ALDI and Lidl first entered the UK market it was because they were amazed at the higher profit margins that the UK retailers were making compared with what they were making in Europe. ALDI also happen to be the retailer that pays its shop staff the highest wages in the UK when compared with the other grocery retailers.

People should live within their means, but if wages are insufficient to pay for even the basic necessities such as housing, utilities and food, what are they supposed to do? The government could withdraw housing support - the argument being that all this does is inflate rents and put money into the pockets of the landlords - but if this resulted in rents falling there would be an outcry from the landlords (including many Conservative MPs) and if house values fell the ordinary home owners (who mostly vote Conservative) would risk being hit by negative equity, so they all complain about subsidising welfare recipients while themselves benefitting from the inflated rents and house values.

Many people earn above minimum wage not because the minimum wage exists but because they have skills and knowledge meaning they can command a higher wage.

They have a large numerical profit because they sell lots of good. The post tax profit margins is around 1% to 2%.

We can bring down energy costs by ending carbon taxes and green levies. Scrap TCPA as well to cut housing costs.

Sartre · 05/10/2026 13:47

Most jobs are not well paid. I’m an academic so have a PhD and post doc, I cannot be educated more than I am right now. I earn 60k. It’s better paid than most but is that a high salary? I’m not so convinced.

Zzxzzz · 05/10/2026 13:51

Sartre · 05/10/2026 13:47

Most jobs are not well paid. I’m an academic so have a PhD and post doc, I cannot be educated more than I am right now. I earn 60k. It’s better paid than most but is that a high salary? I’m not so convinced.

You choose to go into academia over industry.....

Sartre · 05/10/2026 13:53

Zzxzzz · 05/10/2026 13:51

You choose to go into academia over industry.....

Ok sure but I’m teaching at the highest level plus conducting research yet I’m paid 60k.

Paganpentacle · 05/10/2026 13:58

AmberTigerEyes · 04/10/2026 09:43

We are not far away from all the other wars that have been and are going on now. We are still fighting ISIS in Syria in Operation Shadr plus we have troops deployed to the strait of Hormuz because of the Israel&US conflict with Iran.

Our entire male population is not overseas fighting hand to hand combat.

JHound · 05/10/2026 14:00

Zzxzzz · 05/10/2026 12:01

If you don't provide the welfare itself then maybe the labour market bargaining position changes.

Anyhow you also need to look at the profit margins these companies are making..... Retail is razor thing, how are they magically going to pay everyone more. Is the pay actually that bad?

At some point aren't people expected to budget accordingly and live within their means?

Why do you assume people are not budgeting properly because they need benefits to top up low wages?

This is such a constant and lazy retort. In some places part of that is housing benefit because private rental prices simply are too high. A family cannot move into an HMO.

pointythings · 05/10/2026 14:00

Sartre · 05/10/2026 13:53

Ok sure but I’m teaching at the highest level plus conducting research yet I’m paid 60k.

Not to mention that research drives innovation, and yet we dismiss it as 'academia'.

Zzxzzz · 05/10/2026 14:26

Sartre · 05/10/2026 13:53

Ok sure but I’m teaching at the highest level plus conducting research yet I’m paid 60k.

You choose this, what can I say? If you went into industry who knows what heights you could have reached?

I also don't know what uni you teach at and what field you're in.

XenoBitch · 05/10/2026 14:29

Zzxzzz · 05/10/2026 14:26

You choose this, what can I say? If you went into industry who knows what heights you could have reached?

I also don't know what uni you teach at and what field you're in.

You are looking down on an academic, who teaches, who is on £60k.
I am not sure what you are trying to get at. That PP is a failure and to blame for being on the terrible salary of £60k.

What do you do and what do you earn? So you can be judged too. It is only fair.

pointythings · 05/10/2026 14:32

XenoBitch · 05/10/2026 14:29

You are looking down on an academic, who teaches, who is on £60k.
I am not sure what you are trying to get at. That PP is a failure and to blame for being on the terrible salary of £60k.

What do you do and what do you earn? So you can be judged too. It is only fair.

The mindless worship of 'industry' and 'business' is why we are living in a world where ignorance and money are venerated whilst intelligence is demeaned. Yes, we need business and industry. But without research and innovation from creative minds who are not fully blinkered by profit motives, we would be nowhere. There's a balance, and it has been lost.

JHound · 05/10/2026 14:33

AgeingMillennial · 05/10/2026 12:01

They can’t. Let’s say we increase the NMW. Prices would just rise accordingly. It would be meaningless.

I am not sure the relationship is that simple. For a while Australia managed to have one of the highest NMW in the world with one of the lowest unemployment rates.

But I was making a broader observation that people seem to want a simple solution to a complex issue. We have lots of work that is so low paid people need welfare to survive. And how we fix that problem is not straight forward.

Zzxzzz · 05/10/2026 14:46

XenoBitch · 05/10/2026 14:29

You are looking down on an academic, who teaches, who is on £60k.
I am not sure what you are trying to get at. That PP is a failure and to blame for being on the terrible salary of £60k.

What do you do and what do you earn? So you can be judged too. It is only fair.

I don't look down on anyone at £60k. £60k is a perfectly decent salary and enough to live off.

I'm saying that OP being "stuck on £60k" is because she chose to do academia (something that's had years and years of funding issues and low progression and is known for low pay).

Like she actively chose to do this and stayed in this

JHound · 05/10/2026 14:47

19lottie82 · 05/10/2026 13:07

Has he tried multiple recruitment agencies? It’s pretty easy to get immediate start work, if you’re not fussy.

This isn’t true.

JHound · 05/10/2026 14:52

Havanananana · 05/10/2026 10:29

His analysis is spot on.

Badenoch acknowleges that 14 years of Conservative austerity and mis-management has severely damaged the UK economy and yet all she can come up with is "more of the same- but this time harder" as if that would result in a different outcome.

She is just doing some performative politics, like Truss before her trying to evoke the spirit of Thatcher in an attempt to grab a few headlines. The Conservatives are hoping that people have forgotten that it was Thatcher who started the process to dismantle the public services, destroy the post-war collectivism, rip up the social contract and place the country into the hands of the capitalists and rentiers. She gave away the public utilities, spaffed the North Sea oil revenues on tax cuts for her chums in industry, and stole the council houses. She decided that the UK should focus on services rather than on manufacturing. The people who thought that they were being clever by buying into this are the same people who 40 years down the line are complaining that their children can't afford a house, that their utility bills are unaffordable and that the rivers are full of shit, and that there are no jobs for the youngsters.

She also knows that it is easy to lob grenades at Labour and Burnham as long as she does not actually have to enact any policies herself. She seems to think that she will be the next PM. Even if there is a right-wing majority in Parliament, she would probably have to work with Farage, Jenrick, Braverman and possibly Lowe, people who she dislikes and who have openly criticised her in the past.

She's strangely quiet about Brexit though. The Conservative Brexit that has cost every person the equivalent of £3,000 a year so far and that continues to hold back the country.

I just read the analysis in the quote and agree it’s really and good at highlighting the shortcomings as well as the positives of what she has written.

JHound · 05/10/2026 14:55

Zzxzzz · 05/10/2026 13:51

You choose to go into academia over industry.....

We need people to go into academia.

Sartre · 05/10/2026 15:53

JHound · 05/10/2026 14:55

We need people to go into academia.

Thank you, we absolutely do. I also don’t appreciate being looked down upon for using my education to teach the next generation and offer research that will hopefully help them too… My point wasn’t the perfectly respectable career choices I feel I have made but more the fact I’m this educated and only earn 60k. People generally aren’t receiving adequate pay.