AIBU to reconsider a long friendship over support for education tax?

[CoconutRumcake]

A close friend of over 15 years last night unashamedly said she supported the children’s education tax. To put this in context, she is godmother to my ds and has seen first hand what damage this has done to children and families as well as her own sister losing her job when the school closed. She had maybe drank too much and has apologised over text this morning, but I really can’t shake the feeling that I don’t want to be around her.
AIBU -try and move past it
YANBU -it’s run it’s time

Private schools closing has been a thing for decades.

In the 90s a local private school closed and all the pupils were divided up amongst the other local private schools. My brother played football with one of them who had to move schools.

If 20% VAT is closing schools those schools should have been more fiscally responsible. Like the other private schools have been who are thriving.

In my town there are several private schools and none of them are even close to closing. However, with significant house building in the area there is huge demand for state school places so I'm delighted that money is finally being directed to those most in need rather than those who already have the most.

This thread may outlive the lettuce.

Do you have a set schedule for coming here to cry that tax dodging is getting harder for the 'elite' or do you just remember to stop by every so often?

Waaah.

It isn’t even taxed in line with education services outside of ages 5 to 18, let alone all other goods and services. Do you support taxing nursery care and post 18 education to bring it into line?

They are not the same thing as private education ages 5 - 18 - you are comparing apples with oranges. The majority of children go to nursery, which they have to pay for, at least in part - there are no non-fee options. About a 1/3 of young adults go to uni, for the majority tuition for this is not free.

If there were private options, and non-fee options, then yes, I could understand your point. But there are not.

I think its probably fair to say if the two of you do go your seperate ways, your friend is going to have a lot more options for like minded company than you.

They’re not charities though. They are all in it to make money so it’s not really something anyone should be surprised about. Or upset about.

There are two issues here, your rather twee assertion that it is a children’s education tax, rather than VAT on school fees, where everyone would have understood you, and the idea that you can’t remain friends with someone who has a different view to you.

It is a perfectly legitimate view to support VAT on school fees, just as it is a legitimate view to oppose it. It is not like racism, which would be hard to ignore. Adults should be able to agree to disagree.

Also, if you start a thread in AIBU and 94% think you are being unreasonable, maybe it is time for some reflection!

Nice for everybody really. There’s a broad range of schools ranging from £12k a year to £60k. There are was burseries and scholarships, people could dip in and out of state school if a child excelled at something say music, ballet or a sport. Maybe people could afford two years at GCSEs or A levels or during a time when the child is desperately unhappy at their state school. Yes people can still do this and yes some people can’t afford it all, but by taxing it it has shrunk people’s options and not helped anyone. The cheaper smaller schools are closing one by one or merging with bigger ones, burseries and scholarships are disappearing and remaining schools are pushing harder to excel at academics to capture international students.

OP, you need to take a very deep breath and recognise that pretty much every tax change creates winners and losers, and the effects can be quite extreme - including bankruptcies, businesses failing and people's lives changing significantly.

However I'm guessing that you, like me, being a net contributor to the exchequer haven't been personally hit by a tax change in such a significant way previously. That's why it feels disproportionately unfair to you and "obvious" to you that it's egregious, people who support it are thick and spiteful.

But once you start attributing motives to people's opinions about tax decisions, you're on a losing argument.

People's opinions on public spending and where that money should come from are complex and varied. Someone thinking that taxing the parents of private school pupils more rather than, say, cutting benefits for pensioners or raising taxes on small business is a fairly mainstream and non-thick view, just as much as someone else saying they'd ban tax on all educational services and reduce public spending on out of work benefits instead.

People will disagree vehemently with both points of view based on their own values, political views and whether it affects them, but it doesn't make them stupid or spiteful, it just means they value different things more.

You’d really want to send your dc to state school if you had other options? Majority of them, particularly in the cities, are managed poorly. Too many children who need more support these days, and the other kids are usually collateral damage to accommodate those who really shouldn’t be in mainstream schools. Kids taking weapons, badly behaved, don’t want to learn so distract. The reality is that private schools don’t have these same problems.

I know this because of my involvement with SEND. Private school parents with SEND children invariably have to top up their child's SEND support with private tutors in addition to private education. Therefore paying three times for their children's education. Once in their taxes, secondly in school fees and again in tutoring top ups.

I feel like OP may be in quite a bubble. I know quite a few private school parents who don't love paying the extra fees but agree with the principle compared to other tax rises; I'm a little surprised she hasn't come across any.

It will inevitably be part of a bigger picture.

OP, do you feel that state provided education is not an education at all!? This is not a tax on children’s education… what you seem to be saying is private education is the only place a child will be properly educated, the only education you see in your eyes as being such

It’s a tax on education services, it includes things such as school trips, after school clubs, music tuition, additional sport. We really don’t want those kids learning a musical instrument now do we?

I have the option and am likely to still choose state. I don't believe for a moment that private schools don't have problems, there were certainly some serious drugs going round in the one where we used to live.

'...and some people can't afford it at all...'

Gosh. That phrase alone shows you are either completely out of touch or a poor writer.

Here's a rewrite, which addresses both points: 'Most people never even think of paying for an independent school because it's financially out of reach.'

Me too.

I get some people like service families who have children in boarding school for stability might feel the impact of this policy. But if you are not one of those then you make it sound like youve lost a limb. No one is forcing you to send your child to a fee paying school. Your friend is entitled to her opinion and if it doesnt fit in with yours then so what.

@CoconutRumcake ,

‘It’s a tax on education services, it includes things such as school trips, after school clubs, music tuition, additional sport. We really don’t want those kids learning a musical instrument now do we?’

The vast majority is on fees. You can get private music lessons away from school and they are VAT free. Everyone knows this as VAT on school fees.

However, you are missing my main point, which was the answer to your actual question. It is childish to fall out over a political disagreement when both views are reasonable.

(FWIW, I also think it is an ill conceived tax and won’t raise much money, but I know plenty on both sides of the argument who send their children to private schools ).

Nearly as bad as the bond market at moment? Oh wait Truss is no longer in charge?

Kids are at good state school now, me and DH are comprehensive educated. Mine was a bit rough, schools vary enormously really and it depends basically on where you live. We’re moving for secondary school now and going state, we’d go private for one or all depending on what suits them though (bullying/particular interest). So yes I do think state can be a good education, but I don’t believe one size fits all and want as many options as possible. This won’t go down well, but it’s totally down to the parents how good a school is, independent is one way to try and avoid bad parents and the other is to move to an expensive middle class area.

You can’t just rebrand VAT on private school fees “children’s education tax” and then be angry at people online who don’t understand your brand new phrase! 😂

if you can’t be friends with someone because of different beliefs on taxation then you need to have a very hard look at yourself.

Whether those things are taxed depends on the provider and the nature of the services.

Wraparound care, for example, remains tax free regardless of the provider. Music lessons, etc, depend on who is providing the service.

Op Labour needed something to throw out there as a tax. One which would do nothing for state education but some families and dc would feel it so some would be happy about that. That’s enough for it to be applauded. A pointless, damaging policy.