AIBU to reconsider a long friendship over support for education tax?

[CoconutRumcake]

A close friend of over 15 years last night unashamedly said she supported the children’s education tax. To put this in context, she is godmother to my ds and has seen first hand what damage this has done to children and families as well as her own sister losing her job when the school closed. She had maybe drank too much and has apologised over text this morning, but I really can’t shake the feeling that I don’t want to be around her.
AIBU -try and move past it
YANBU -it’s run it’s time

I would agree with this. Unfortunately policy changes always seem to have a group that gets more hurt than others by them. Would be good if they could use the money raised for extra support for these children whether in mainstream or specialized schools, but very unlikely.

Okay, this really is interesting example of dunnenger-Kruger effect.

I’m going to ignore the insults and just answer your points with facts, backed up with a link to HMRC and the Government policy. I hope you will spend 2 minutes giving them a quick read.

Independant schools lost their VAT exempt status under the current government. They previously had this under the rather spurious pretence that they were charities.

No this is completely incorrect, I’m surprised your friends at independent schools think that. It had nothing to do with charitable status. Their fees didn’t go up by 20%, in a lot of cases fees actually went down to try and help the children but it’s just that they now pay 20% on their children’s education services.
Private schools always paid VAT.Charitable status offers gift aid and a reduction in business rates (the government also removed charitable business rate relief ) for non profit schools. What has changed now is that education and vocational services provided to people aged 5-18, otherwise known as children, are now taxable. This is nothing to do with charitable status, I repeat nothing to do with charitable status. Children’s education was tax free , now it’s not….I don’t think I can be clearer really. Here is the link to the policy https://www.gov.uk/guidance/vat-on-education-and-vocational-training-notice-70130

And there is no such thing as "net" tax or a "net" tax payer. What are you actually on about? A person's salary is described as gross before deductions such as tax and NI are made and what is left is the net amount. Hope this helps.

A net tax payer is someone who pays more into the system than takes out. Obviously this varies from person to person but it is generally agreed to be around £45k. Currently only 47% of people are net contributors with the top 10% paying 60% of income taxes. It costs tax payers £8k a year to care a child.

Thank you for that. I was going to address the Finland education system is so amazing droning that goes on on these threads, but lost the will.

🎣

The fact that you are referring to anyone who questions your (incorrect) arguments as thick and spiteful suggest that your friend has had a lucky escape.

Your disdain for anyone who doesn't think relatively wealthy families should have extra support in buying more privilege for their children is a good argument for abolishing private education entirely. The other one would be how much better state education tends to be in countries who have done this.

Education is, as you agree vitally important and thr bedrock of a civilisation. Therefore it should not operate a two tier system.

Unless I’m as massively deluded as OP, other Private schools are available for her DC should she choose to send them there. One closing does not remove the choice.

I love this thread. It reminds me of 2024 bitterness bile.. Memories.. ahh

You're just being downright obnoxious now with this arrogant little gem

'I think I do my bit although seemingly it’s not enough for those who simply live off the tax payer.'

What 'bit' do you actually do?

It's obvious that you are the @GigglyOrange poster from an earlier thread where you were refusing to allow your child to go on a playdate with a child whose mother was also 'against the education tax'. Your disdain for parents who don't educate their children privately was blatant and nasty

'Well exactly, also I would imagine that alcohol abuse/smoking would be likely in the home.'

Okay, this really is interesting example of dunnenger-Kruger effect.

As if this thread hadn't provided enough lols already

Correlation does not imply causation

Well I suppose if it is that important to you then YANBU.

There are political views which would stop me being friends with someone. I don't think I could be close friends with someone who supported Reform.

But I support VAT on private school education, so in that sense I think YABU.

You are not properly informed on this or you are just choosing to misunderstand. You obviously think that you are far superior to anyone who pays less tax than you. For your friends sake please don't talk to her again. You sound absolutely unbearable

I feel sorry for your friend. You seem both stridently opinionated and woefully misinformed, a toxic combination if ever there was one. And it’s “have”, not “of”.

Dunning-Kruger....thick as...

Starting to think this conversation with a friend never happened and you just fancied a moan about tax, as I’d never call a friend ‘thick and spiteful’. Either that or she can’t be a friend you like.

I'm with you, 100%, but probably wouldn't end a friendship over it. I wouldn't respect the person anymore.

I recognise this OP's writing style and arguments. Hasn't she had many, many threads on this topic before? All going much the same way IIRC

Agree. The debate should really be about having a friend with a different view on a political issue, not actually discussing the issue.

Who is paying £90,000 tax a year? Did I miss something or did this come out of a different thread?

I agree that OP has been quite rude about her friend and unwilling to accept that people may not come to the same conclusion about every issue.

"Why should people purchasing a luxury that most people can’t afford do so tax free?"
I can't help wondering if f you would apply the same reasoning to VAT on private healthcare (e.g. when people pay to go private so they won't have to wait months for an appointment)? At the moment this is not subject to VAT. I can't help thinking the arguments would change focus if this was also under consideration.

What do you mean literally no one believes the education tax?!? Unfortunately HMRC believes it whether you do or not, so you have to pay it or move your kid out of school.

Can I ask what exactly is it you don’t agree with me on? Are you saying the children’s education and vocational training tax doesn’t exist?

Are you the poster who, not long ago, was pondering whether to allow a play date for your DC with a kid who’s mom was in support of the „education tax” (massive LOL)? Haven’t you had enough last time? You’ve been thoroughly rinsed

I didn’t expect people to agree with her point of view, I’d assumed (wrongly) that most people would regard taxing children’s education as rather ridiculous and harmful.

OP: let’s talk terminology.

UK tax payers pay one of three bands of income tax. All three are classified as UK tax payers, NOT net tax payer.

Education tax: this does not exist in the UK. There is no such thing. Private schools now invoice fees + VAT, just like a builder merchant or a car garage. Previously it was excluded from private school fees. Bursaries and scholarships are available to help offset the real world cost to the parent. Some schools have managed to reduce the actual fees too, they have done this by claiming VAT back on purchases they make for the running of the business.

Charitable status of schools: some are. Most private schools have a charitable arm which fundraisers and funds bursaries and investment in school infrastructure, these schools are not charitable enterprises themselves they operate as a business.

Private school closures; VAT has been used as the public facing excuse for poor leadership over numbers of years. Just like any business with good leadership and strong governance they thrive and those without good management will not. As a potential fee paying parent their accounts are publicly available for you to review before signing up DC, after all a well managed and financial sound business is going to have a greater learning and enriching experience for them than one that is fire fighting to stay functioning.

Ah right, so what you were referring to is a net CONTRIBUTOR, pleased that at least is cleared up. "Net tax payer" and "net tax" are not actual phrases, hence the confusion as to wtf you were talking about.

As for the VAT on private schools - I'm done. Believe what you like, say what you like ultimately your call.

Also it is difficult to take seriously being lectured on psychology/cognitive bias by someone incapable of correctly using a past participle or other basic grammatical constructs. Fortunately my shitty, free comprehensive schooling gave me a pretty solid schooling in these things.

The VAT rules on food are a complete mess. For example take away Dunkin donuts are zero VAT rated because they are cold, whereas hot porridge from say Pret would attract VAT.