AIBU to reconsider a long friendship over support for education tax?

[CoconutRumcake]

A close friend of over 15 years last night unashamedly said she supported the children’s education tax. To put this in context, she is godmother to my ds and has seen first hand what damage this has done to children and families as well as her own sister losing her job when the school closed. She had maybe drank too much and has apologised over text this morning, but I really can’t shake the feeling that I don’t want to be around her.
AIBU -try and move past it
YANBU -it’s run it’s time

My list doesn’t include caviar.

@CoconutRumcake, I’ll ask again- did you post a similar question couple of months ago, pondering whether you should let your child play with a kid who’s mom was in favour of „education tax” as you ridiculously call it???? Was it you?

OP did write that someone she knows has lost their job from this tax being introduced

This is all mixed up. (I’m a VAT professional so I do understand the rules). Previously private schools didn’t charge VAT on their fees; this meant they COULDN’T reclaim the VAT they paid out on their purchases. Now they have to charge VAT on their fees, so they CAN reclaim the VAT they pay.

State schools have always been able to reclaim the VAT they pay out, even though they don’t charge any VAT.

It depends where you live. Not all state options are suitable. That’s why house prices vary so much depending on catchment area boundaries.

OP, VAT applies to fee-paying schools only. It's made very clear in the Government link you posted that non fee-paying (state) schools are exempt from VAT being charged on education.

What you're saying (that the government has introduced a tax on all children's education) is nonsense.

I'll admit upfront that my DSs went through the public school system before VAT (plus had bursaries) so maybe this is "easy" for people like me to say... However, if you can afford to pay for a public (private) school education for your children, then you either suck it up and pay 20% more, or you choose state school at no cost to you whatsoever.

Don’t confuse them with facts!

I have a friend who told me recently she is pro death penalty. I said, ‘oh why is that?’ She made her argument about it acting as a deterrent. I responded with a counter argument and then we opened a bottle of wine and chatted about other stuff. Pretty sure that’s how this friendship thing works. I honestly can’t imagine cutting off a friend because of a differing political view.

Should Private schools exist at all - is definitely a topic worthy of discussion.
should taxes come in - probably.

Just from working in a private school - I can give a view on the panic this has caused.

Another school closed down near me recently, and the students who already paid fees are now really worried if they will get their fees back, they are also panicking looking for somewhere else to go. I know this as my school have received lots of panicked enquiries about students coming here.

I saw three private schools close down near me last year, with a lot of people losing their jobs.

Your 90k tax means you earn good salaries and enjoy that. You do not have to use private schools. It is your choice. And fees have gone up since VAT imposed. Yes.
The state system does not "save" the direct per pupil equivalent if your kids do not attend. It is more complex than that. If your three dc do not attend local state primary school eg instead of 200 it is 197 pupils but that local school still needs to pay its teachers etc. For the 197 kids in that school . That school may receive slightly less in funding as 197 pupils not 200. But teachers numbers wont decrease. it is not as simple as you make out. School funding: Everything you need to know – The Education Hub share.google/EMpYniJmPlZKFZjdK

Give your head a good wobble I pay IPT on my private health insurance which I find annoying but I wouldn't dump a friend over a different opinion.....on the other hand SHE might have dodged a bullet if you dump her.

What about international students? In my private school, 80 percent of the students are international students. They are not from the U.K.

They are often stuck in long visa processing queues, and they often are not able to enter the U.K. until late in the academic year. We know this and so provide classes online until they can get here, and then accommodate their late starting date.

Would U.K. state schools accept students like that?

lol

Most people dont have the option to send kids to private school. So while I feel sympathy for those kids at private who have had to leave i do agree that VAT should apply to private schools as it does to other businesses.

I don't think private school should ever have had charitable status as a tax dodge, but I would never have removed it (if I were in charge) because of the repercussions. I don't think I'm unique in this opinon - perhaps this was hers, too? She'd had a drink and might not quite as articulate as she could have been.

It's also possible to have a broader, bigger picture opinion on what is 'right' unemotionally and without bringing personal experiences into it.

I generally assume that anyone who is dim enough or dishonest enough to refer to the removal of the VAT charitable exemption from private schools as the ‘children’s education tax’ is in the wrong in any given argument on the subject.

HTH.

Also, for the avoidance of all doubt, since the OP thinks it’s relevant, I’m pretty sure I’m a net contributor to tax.

It a false and over simplistic argument to say you are saving the country money by sending your kids private.

The best thing for the country would be for all children to be educated together in a well funded system and well equipped schools. The most successful countries on earth either ban private schools or have very little private school use (see Nordic countries). What the country needs is whole generations of children who have had an excellent education, of course with options to branch off in different directions mid teens, not a few who have had the chance to purchase an advantage possessing this excellent education.

Because rich / better off people have the chance to opt out of the system they consistently vote for low tax parties and not for parties that would increase tax to properly fund schools. We have a problem with school underfunding leading to badly educated adults, and it’s a huge problem in his country. Allowing those who have often had advantages themselves to opt out of the national education system for their children means they have no interest in voting for parties who would solve this problem as they don’t care.

Allowing a few to purchase an advantage is also a detriment to our industries because it skews the job market later on in favour of some adults who are not the most able individuals (on an even playing field). This is also of course why some want to purchase private education.

You therefore acting to the detriment of the country by paying for private school for your kids. You aren’t saving it money or doing it a favour. You are a problem.

The government could ban private education as in some Nordic countries. This has worked well for them. It gives everyone a stake in the system. Short of doing this, it should not incentivise this detrimentally behaviour by giving it tax breaks. They are tax breaks.

As I said, if anything it should be disincentivised with higher taxes like cigarettes and alcohol, which also drain the overall economy as they make people sick.

They do for any recognised meaning of the word. Thry don't pay out dividends or bonuses. They call it a surplus and put it into developing their facilities or 'reserves'. Not for profit organisation can hold huge reserves and invest in capital expenditure that attracts new customers. That's the new science lab. That gets better customers so fees can go up and 'compensation' for staff increase. That's a result of profit/surplus. Begs the question why they are so vulnerable to VAT exemption being removed. Or maybe just a smokescreen. Eton has 500 million in reserves. Not bad as they aren't permitted to make a profit.

PS I am most definitely a net contributor of tax.

It says alot about you if you cut off friends for having a minor difference in opinion.

My closest friend, she’s like a sister to me, voted Brexit and will vote reform. We don’t discuss politics though I am aware of these. I wouldn’t dream of dropping her, I’ve known her all my life and she means a lot to me.

She didn’t have to apologise for her views. She needed to apologise for unnecessarily rubbing them in OP’s face when the policy in question is harming OP.

I also have a very good friend who voted for Brexit.

I don’t talk to him about it although it baffles me as it goes against all of his interests to have done so.

Not sure that several grand a year is minor to the OP.

Thing is (ignoring the OP’s “education tax”
argument), all taxes could be considered unfair on one level. Old person lives frugally all their lives, gets clobbered with inheritance tax. Worker passes all exams and does well, gets a good job, pays a lot more income tax. Person needs to move house because they lose their job or are ill- they still pay stamp duty.

Basically there is no formula that’s completely fair. I’m in favour of VAT on school fees because in 90% of cases it is optional and there is a good alternative (state education). But I won’t fall out with someone who disagrees with me on this because they are coming at it from their own angle and wouldn’t the world be boring if we all had exactly the same view on everything?