You're not an Alcoholic!

[dogsaremybusiness]

I watched a documentary last night, and this woman was saying that alcoholism ran in their family (she was one), and she kind of blamed her Dad because he was an alcoholic too.

It transpired though, that her Dad enjoyed a drink between the ages of 21 and 29, and then he never touched another drop, for the following FIFTY years until his death.

However, he made money touring around and giving pep talks to alcoholics and recovering alcoholics.

AIBU to think that if you drank in your 20's (which most of us do) and then you are Tee total in your 30's, 40's, 50's 60's and 70's that you are NOT a fucking alcoholic, and maybe you just enjoyed making money by claiming that you were?

Really got my back up, as I am the DD of an alcoholic, and do really struggle to keep my own drinking under control.

Sorry I disagree - I’d want to be spoken to by someone who had managed to remain sober for more than a few months or years, one with a proven track record of kicking the habit. Managing it, dealing with the breadth of life issues he will have encountered in that fifty years (marriage/divorce, children, job stress/loss, bereavements, illness) and never returning to alcohol at those times is an incredible feat.

It’s rather dismissive and minimising of the incredible achievement it takes to not only overcome an addiction but to stay sober/clean. It’s the staying sober that addicts struggle with as (repeated) relapse is so very common.

So do I. They'd be considered to have a completely ordinary relationship with alcohol by British standards. That could be a cultural thing, though - I'm not sure the UK's relationship with alcohol is particularly healthy!

I had a problem with alcohol in my 20s. I was never sure if I was an alcoholic - I went to some AA meetings but everyone there was waaaay worse than me, which made me think I probably wasn't, even though I was drinking too much and it was making me unhappy. I got to 30, moved abroad, and managed to use that change to change my drinking habits. I am still a binge drinker - once I start, I find it hard to stop - but I don't like the effects of alcohol on my body at all any more so just don't drink as much.

My BF from school is an alcoholic and so is another friend who is physically dependent, her husband died of cirrhosis of the liver, and frankly I'm amazed she's alive, but she would never ever admit it.

On the flipside, you could say that having stayed sober for 50 years is a tremendous achievement, and proof that whatever he did worked, as opposed to someone who has "only" been sober for 10 years, and the longer term results of their method are yet to fully be seen.

I believe that people who have experienced alcohol dependence generally consider themselves to be in recovery rather than cured, as alcohol dependence is something they continue to manage rather than something that is necessarily considered permanently resolved.

Which may be why her Dad considered himself to be an alcoholic even though he hadn't drunk in 50 years.

Addiction does run in families. I know it does in mine. However by being aware of it I have managed to avoid my own addiction, although my sugar intake is problematic. I have never smoked or taken drugs because I've seen what it's done to the rest of my family.

So technically the woman is right in blaming her Dad per se. Although I wouldn't say that's necessarily helpful. I could blame my grandad and grandma and my mum and my uncle and aunt but I'm not sure that's taking personal responsibility for my choices and actions.

Honestly that doesn’t really make a lot of sense. It’s not like a surgeon talking about the latest progress in heart surgery against a talk by someone who hasn’t operated for forty years is it? Why would someone saying they’ve abstained for the past year be more valuable to you than someone who has abstained for the last 40 years and can pass those tools for decades long abstinence on?

Yep, I am from a family of addicts too. We are all very middle-class - my dad and grandpa were both doctors, both addicted to prescription drugs. I suspect it's actually due to rampant ADHD but that's probably another story for another thread.

Absolutely. Nothing more annoying than so e newly slender/ newly sober/ new gym body being all evangelical about their lifestyle and how if they can do it, anyone can. Give me someone who has had 20 years of life experience and maintained those changes!

I do not need to be an alcoholic to have an opinion thanks. I'd bet most of us sadly have had experience of heavy drinkers. It is unfortunately very common.

Wow, well done for stopping! Sorry to hear of what happened, too. I hear you with the weight. I have a wine belly I'm desperate to ditch. This has given me inspiration, thank you.

Sounds like he is in recovery. When an addict with alcohol , they will always be an alcoholic - but if havnt touched a drop then just one in recovery and not drinking

I'm sure someone else has already said this but even if you only smoked in your teens or 20's and you are now in your 50's - you're technically an ex smoker rather than a non smoker

Of course you can have an opinion even if it's wrong. We are discussing alcoholics not heavy drinkers & those of us who are alcoholics know a damn sight more about the subject than do heavy drinkers or those who have had experience of heavy drinkers.

That doesn’t mean he isn’t an alcoholic. It means he recovered at age 29. What do you think happens to alcoholics who recover? They go teetotal.

I quit at 30, my husband begged me to stop. I’d put myself in so much danger, I’d been arrested, I’d harmed friends, harmed my husband, I was overweight and miserable and anxious. So I went to AA and I got sober and now I am teetotal. The fact I did this at 30 and not 50 doesn’t mean I didn’t have a problem.

Generally lots of people drink to excess in their 20s. That’s not the same as alcohol use disorder - some alcoholics tell themselves in their 20s they’re not an alcoholic because everyone else is drinking too but that doesn’t mean they’re not an alcoholic.

Some realise at 29. Some realise at 49. Some die before they realise.

If you drink to excess in your teens or 20s and them never again because you can't trust yourself, you're an alcoholic.

Of course YABU. The man obviously realised he was an alcoholic by the age of 29 and manages his alcoholism with life long abstinence. Which is the only way to manage the condition.
Sounds to me like he's doing great work in telling his story. Alcoholism often hides within heavy drinking cultures of youth, and the fewer responsibilities and more robust health of the young can mask the fact its a problem. I'd like to see more awareness of the problem in young people. It could head off a life time of misery and health problems if it's caught early.

Op I think you’re probably upset because you’ve been living with a problem for a very long time and you feel patronised because you dont think it was as hard for him to quit as it will be for you. You’re angry that he recognised and solved his alcoholism where you haven’t so far been able to.

It’s OK to be upset and angry and feel it’s all very unfair. I don’t think it’s OK to invalidate someone else’s problem. Or use it as an excuse not to confront your own problem because you’ve ‘got it worse’.

Alcoholism is an mental and physical addiction, just because he stopped doesn't suddenly make that go away. Once an addiction is established it is a mental battle to abstain after that. You say he "enjoyed a drink" between 20-29 which is perhaps incorrect wording. There is a difference between enjoying a drink now and then and getting smashed every single day for 9 years. It isn't even really the amount itself, either, but your relationship with it. Someone who cannot help but drink every weekend is an alcoholic. Someone who cannot help but have a glass of wine every night is an alcoholic. It's a fine line but the differentiating factor is whether you can choose to stop (without struggling mentally/physically), regardless of how much you drink.

Many alcoholics aren’t alcohol dependent. That’s where you physically cannot go without it and could trigger seizures if you go cold turkey. Most alcoholics or many do not require medical tapering and so are not dependent.

Alcohol use disorder or physical alcohol dependency are two related but separate (sometimes overlapping) conditions.

Not necessarily true. All recovered alcoholics have been able to choose to stop. They’re still alcoholics and they stopped through sheer force of will. Once I made up my mind to stop it wasn’t as hard as I imagined.

What defines an alcoholic / someone with alcohol use disorder in my opinion is the effect it has on you, others, your life and relationships. Many alcoholics can go periods without alcohol. But all cause problems when they drink whether it’s violence, belligerence, drink driving, keeping secrets, lying, being unreliable, calling in sick often etc.

This is interesting to me. I regularly drink 2 bottles of wine in one sitting. I'll start at 6pm, and end about 1030pm. But nothing happens if I have a night off. Absolutely nothing. I've just had two nights off. Slept fine. I've never had the shakes.

My Dad drank daily for 47 years (between the ages of 37 and 84), and was still getting good liver readings right up until the end. I also have regular blood tests and liver function always comes back good. I realise this will change though if I don't cut back/stop.

Just because you’re not physically dependent doesn’t mean you don’t have alcohol use disorder. 2 bottles a night is more than the weekly recommended maximum. You’re drinking 140 units a week. 10 times the recommended maximum.

By the time your biomarkers show direct change caused by alcohol it may be too late to stop the effects.

At least half the people I knew in AA didn’t drink every single night and didn’t get the shakes. Your view of alcoholism is narrowed upon physical dependency. Probably because you don’t want to admit you have a problem.

Just because it wasn't hard for you to abstain, does not mean that it isn't for other people. Thus causing the very high relapse rate, and that there is the addiction.

People who drink who are not alcoholics also can cause serious harm with their behaviour when drunk, so the definition is not the damage caused while under the influence, as it can be extended to alcohol-users who are not dependent.

However, those behaviours and their consequences most definitely form a part of the bigger definition of alcoholism and are a part of the condition, when taken into account with the individual's lack of agency regarding the drug. The underlying definition is an inability to control or stop drinking despite serious negative effects on health, work, and rrelationships. From my extensive experience with alcohol-users, it is very apparent that those dependent are those who seriously struggle to control their habit and typically relapse if they do try, experiencing mental and physical withdrawal symptoms regardless of amount consumed.

Enough people have already said this but I’ll say it too, in recovery circles, alcoholism is a lifelong thing, regardless of how often or when you last drank.
im also the daughter of an alcoholic and have struggled with alcohol myself to a very debilitating level.
i rarely drink now and never to excess, but in my head I sometimes still wish I could drink to oblivion but I know it will be a huge mistake and I don’t.
The last time I did , after a bereavement, I got myself into a hugely dangerous situation and was lucky I came out of it unscathed.

If that was the case then every single person in AA who has managed to go sober isn’t an alcoholic by that definition. Because they have all managed to stop… even those hospitalised or who experienced alcohol related psychosis.

Now the inability to control intake outside of abstinence I would agree… not one of us was able to moderate.

And I said it wasn’t hard to stop once I decided to. It took years of struggling to moderate, struggling to just cut down and to behave myself and to be in control of my drinking before I admitted I was powerless to do so. Once I decided on abstinence it was way easier.

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Idk if you read my first comment but I did say that they struggle with it for life. "just because he stopped doesn't suddenly make that go away. Once an addiction is established it is a mental battle to abstain after that. " and I dont mean they spend every minute of the day thinking about it, but moreso as time goes on and when/if they're able to reach a stable place, it is different for them I.e. to be around alcohol and not use it, than it is for a non-alcoholic to be around the drug and not use it.

My dad was and is an active alcoholic, but is physically dependent so now he has to use it. When he went into a care home they didn't allow him to have any and he had a seizure because of it. He is allowed it in moderation, but how sad it is to see someone's life completely consumed and defined by a chemical.

For me the take home point is that regardless of how you define alcoholism, you know yourself and those around you know if it is a problem or not, and that enough should be motivation to seek help. I wouldn't wish growing up with a drug-addicted parent on anybody.