Friend's dog bit a child, whose fault?

[karrabee]

Dog was on a lead, probably 1.5 metres ahead. Family of 2 adults and 2 children walking past in opposite direction. Children probably 4 and 8? As they walked past the younger girl darted towards the dog and put her hand on his head (flat palm almost like she was hitting him but I think she was trying to pat him on the head) and he nipped her. We were passing each other on a path in a park so were quite close already. Had zero time to do anything as from her walking past to touching him happened in about 1.5 seconds. We had no interaction with the other family prior to this. Dog has never bitten before, we think he just got a fright from the girl, but the family went mad and started threatening to call the police saying we have a dangerous dog (he's am old staffy who has never bitten once and we were so shocked that he even nipped her as he is extremely gentle!). Family followed us round the park and kept shouting 'we know where you live, police are going to be well aware of you'. The girl wasn't injured, skin wasn't broken, but she was obviously scared. Surely this is the fault of the family for not teaching their children not to touch dogs? I don't have a dog so haven't really had to think about it before, but my son knows not to touch dogs without confirming with the owner that they're friendly. It is drilled into him!

Sorry I confused things - it was a huge passenger ferry actually.

Sorry 🙈 it was a huge passenger ferry not a little pleasure boat

We have reached a situation where dogs are becoming a real nuisance.

I am happy that people enjoy their pets - no problem with that. But there seems to be nowhere to go now where dogs are not admitted - where ordinary people can go about their daily lives without having to take the risks they present into account. Is this OK? - I don't think so.

The whole dog thing has become an obsession.

I would like to book self-catering accommodation but struggle to find one that is not dog friendly. I don't want to stay somewhere with the stench of dog absorbed in the carpet; where their shitty arses have sat on the sofa or worse still the bed.

My friend was up on our local common and was rushed at by a loudly barking dog whose owner told her it was her fault because she had turned away! What the actual!!??

I am disabled and use a walking aid - dogs get very agitated around it and follow me barking.

I want the freedom to go out in the countryside, get on a bus, hire an air BNB etc. without being plagued by people's dogs.

Enjoy your dogs, but do not inflict them on me!

That's nice.
But what does it have to do with this situation?

As the owner of both of these breeds, trust me when I say you'd have a much more enjoyable boat ride with my rott x, who will be sitting peacefully between my feet minding his own business, than you would with my chihuahua, who will be actively trying to kill you and everyone you love. Hence why one is allowed on days out and the other is not.

People will have their annecdotes, I have plenty! Byt the fact of the matter is :

• there are badly behaved dogs about.
• there are well behaved dogs about.
• there are badly behaved humans about.
• there are well behaved humans about.

One person's anecdote of "I was rushed at by a dog therefore I feel ALL dogs are a nuisance" or "A child grabbed my dog from behind therefore ALL parents are terrible" are both completely useless really.

The truth is somehwere in the middle. Six of one and half a dozen of another 🤷🏼‍♀️

I would never advocate hurting an animal but to be frank if your chihuahua got aggressive with me I could get it away quite easily. Your rottweiler on the other hand? No.

You must realise that people are generally going to be more frightened around your rottweiler.

How could you not.

Any good parent should have a zero tolerance approach when it comes to respecting other animals. It's not on to allow your child to frighten, hurt or otherwise harm another living creature for their own amusement. I'd be very cross if my child ran up to a dog and frightened it even if the dog took it in its stride.

Having said that, a dog is much more dangerous than a child and ultimately the responsibility is heavily weighted that way in line with that. I don't think it's ever going to be 100%, just as it's never 100% definitely the motorist's fault if they have run over a pedestrian. But you must take a great deal of care if you have a dog and are walking it around other people.

Everything of course. The situation outlined in the OP is a prime example of the problem.

People can walk their dogs in parks. This is hardly a new thing now is it.

The dog isn't at fault, parents should tell kids not to run to dogs they don't know. That said, whose dog is it. The post mentioned 'we' when talking about the dog reading as though the dog is the ops dogs then changes to not my dog

Not if they make themselves a darned nuisance or a danger to others, no they can't.

The dog isn't at fault - the dog IS at fault. It has behaved in an aggressive manner.

The dog never made themselves the danger. The child's negligent parent allowed a danger to develop.
The same way its perfectly fine to walk next to a road, the danger is not from the tarmac, its from the parents allowing the kid to run off.

As kids are so unpredictable I will keep mine right by me if we pass children that age. My one is definitely weary of loud, running children

I don't think muzzling is necessary, the owner just needs to be more aware of kids around the dog. I don't think it was the owner's fault though, the family should have been more proactive in controlling the child. And the intimidating behaviour was not needed.

I wish runners / joggers would realise that it is alarming for a dog to run close by them from behind with no warning.

You’re both at fault. When you pass children with a dog on the lead, you shorten the lead and put the dog on the outside so you are between the dog and the approaching children.

The parents should have taught their child not to run up to strange dogs if they had not done so. It’s common really for children to not listen though and to have poor impulse control, so it’s not wise to depend only on parenting to keep a child safe.

I do hope you apologised? You skip from her being bitten to the family being angry and following you around? What was your reaction when your dog bit her?

The parents should have taught their child not to run up to strange dogs - but if the dogs were properly under the control of their owners or muzzled in public places then people, however young, would be free to run about and enjoy themselves however they might choose free from danger.

There is so much of this attitude that other people should alter their behaviour to suit the dog owners. How did we get into this situation?

Here are the sentencing guidelines for offences under the Dangerous Dogs Act.

https://sentencingcouncil.org.uk/guidelines/owner-or-person-in-charge-of-a-dog-dangerously-out-of-control-in-any-place-in-england-or-wales-whether-or-not-a-public-place-where-a-person-is-injured/

These recognise that the owner can be less to blame if, for example, the dog has been provoked. It clearly isn't the '100% the owner's fault and that's the end of it ' that some on here believe.

I don't think that children should necessarily have the absolute right to run about and enjoy themselves however they might choose. I wouldn't be too happy if I was having a picnic in a park and children chose to start a game of football right next to me.

Dog owners don't have exclusive rights to public places but neither do dog haters or children. Willingness to alter your behaviour to suit others is part of belonging to a civilised society. Surely everyone needs to moderate their behaviour to take account of everyone's needs, as far as possible.

Yes, damn those joggers jogging. Cunty cunts, who do they think they are out jogging. Entitled fuckers

No, all that does is reduce the sentencing/punishment - it's still the same offence

My child can’t kill a staffy. A staffy can kill a child.

While yes the parents could keep a better eye on the child, a dog owner is responsible for their dog actions and training. A child at the age of 4 is not more controllable than a 4 year old dog is it? Or any animal in that sense.

if you can’t train your dog, and can’t recall it, then don’t use public spaces with children. Simple as that. We have staff and a rotti in the family both trained how to behave with children. Still they get recalled and closely held when passing children..

If a motorist failed to notice a child on the pavement and properly take precautions for that hazard, they are very much to blame if the child is hit, whether they darted into the road or not. You can’t just sail past pedestrians and completely disregard an unpredictable outcome. Hazard perception is literally a whole test when learning to drive.

Same here: the owner should have had the dog very close to heel when passing and been watching for any interaction. Then neither the dog nor the child would be in this situation. It’s the owner’s responsibility to avoid any adverse outcome, always.