Why are there so many charlatans in the Window Trade?

[Blondiebeachbabe]

1st guy quoted £22k for the whole house - obviously no way would we do that.

2nd guy quoted us for the 8 windows that really have to be done - over £9k, then in the next breath, it was down to £8k

3rd guy sat down and started to teach us about windows as though we were 5 years old - wouldn't give a price unless we agreed to go ahead - very very pushy - how does that work?

4th guy - really nice, seems honest, great reviews on line - price £4k

What's with all the game playing? And the ridiculous over pricing?

He won't know the details of the job until he sees it, i.e. accessibility, scale, etc.

Perhaps more importantly, he won't know who he'll be dealing with until he meets them in person. Some tradesmen, rightly, pick up on "bad vibes" from potential customers, i.e. awkwardness, arrogance, likely to be a pain in the arse, and either just walk away without providing a quote or quote a high price in the hope they don't want him, or if they do, at least he's getting extra money to put up with the likely problems/hassle of a difficult customer.

Because he has no way of knowing whether a job is even possible (and if it is possible, whether he can or wants to take it) until he goes and sees the property for himself.

He works alone so some jobs are simply too big and complex.
Some will take too much time and he can't book people in for 3-6 months (and then they don't want to wait that long).
Some can only be done in decent weather.
Some require the customer to arrange (for example) a skip, or scaffolding, or other trades to come in.

He's been working since he was 14 (for his dad originally, now runs his own business) - he knows what he's doing, has never had a complaint and has an excellent reputation, but he's not psychic and has no way of knowing whether a job is worth it (or even possible) until he visits the home and then sits down and works through the quote afterwards.

I got the biggest company in our area to quote for our small house - £16K. I wanted to laugh but suppressed it and said we'd be getting other quotes. The guy looked totally taken aback that we weren't accepting his quote there and then.

Got a small local company to do it for £6K.

Mr Pushy is due to call me today to arrange a further visit, where he wants us to sit with him for an hour to talk about his windows. We have already gone with another company who seemed reasonable and "normal". I've got him listed in my phone as "Mr Pushy windows" and I will not be picking up!! 😐

We’ve just had our front door replaced, and it was mind-blowing how crap this industry is. Even when they bothered to respond to enquiries, it was all ‘can’t talk to the wife without the husband’ and the starting at a high price and negotiating down. It was like being back in the 80s.🤣 It might even have been all well and good if they’d actually had their showrooms open at the weekend for the hours they advertised on their own websites, but we’d drive there and they’d be closed.

Eventually found a relatively new husband & wife start-up who were fabulous. Happy to assume I might have been able to have a discussion with my husband when he wasn’t at work and agree what we were ordering, so I could go in all on my little own and order.

I had a new front door fitted in August. I picked a local company with good reviews that I had used decades previously for windows.

The boss did the quote, told him colour and glass decor and showed a picture of the type of door. He measured up and gave me the quote there and then and I confirmed the next day to have the door replaced.

I remember well the days of quotes where they stayed hours trying to get you to accept there and then after a call to "my manager" to see what they could do to reduce the price.

Shysters!

I noticed with all the door knockers that they would never give you even a rough idea, even though they could see the windows from the front step. No - they always have to measure. But I wanted to say, look, if the ball park is £20k, there's zero point of you coming in to measure, as it's not affordable, but if the ballpark is say £8k, then yeah, come in, that sounds reasonable. The guy we've gone with was able to say if we wanted the rest of the house doing it would be roughly £11k - and that was just by sight. Brilliant. Straight talking.

The price spread you’re seeing is unfortunately normal in windows, and a lot of it isn’t about the glass — it’s about sales model and what you’re actually being quoted for.

To compare like-for-like, ask every firm (in writing) for:

• the exact profile system / brand and reinforcement
• glass spec (U-value / warm edge / argon etc)
• hardware brand
• whether trickle vents, new cills, and making-good of plaster/render are included
• who fits it (their own fitters or subcontractors)
• FENSA or equivalent certificate, and whose guarantee it is (installer vs manufacturer) and for how long
• disposal of old windows included or not

£22k for a whole house and £9k that drops to £8k in the next breath are classic commission-led quotes. The guy who won’t price without commitment is a hard pass — a proper installer can give you a written quote after measuring and you take it away.

£4k for eight windows can be fine from a local firm with solid reviews, but check the written spec carefully — if it’s thinner profiles, basic glass, and “customer to make good”, you’re not comparing the same job as a fuller quote. Go with the clear spec and decent reviews, not the cheapest or the slickest pitch. Personal recommendation still beats a doorstep demo every time.

Thats not entirely true. They make a truly massive mark up. I used to work in construction and the cost of windows I tiny compared to what the consumer pays for them.

So they can cherry pick, and do and oftentimes ask for cash payments so HMRC doesnt get a cut.

This genuinely might be the most unhelpful and mumsnetty comment of all time

When we got our windows done I said if anyone said they would ring the ‘office’ and there was a special deal that you had to sign now, they were out the door. 2 different companies did.
@fridaynightzzz

We really need our patio doors replacing. Have done for ages. A few years ago we asked someone to come in to quote. We had exactly this script. I think it was along the lines of normal cost being £X but if you could arrange to have it done on the same day they were doing someone else in the neighborhood then it would be considerably less than £X. He would ring the office to check. Guess what?

By then DH and I were looking at each other shaking our heads in disbelief. Does anyone fall for this crap?

We will have to bite the bullet soon but I will look for recommendations on Next door app. We have found reliable local tradesmen like that before.

Surely it's a mixture of the fact that everybody knows windows will be expensive - just not HOW expensive - and that people won't have bought new windows for maybe decades, and so will have no idea based on what they paid last time. It would be pointless a charlatan seeking to charge you £8,000 for a tin of beans, when you bought one last week and it cost less than £1!

It probably also helps them with their hard-sell that people are worried about security against burglaries and insulation efficiency what with astronomical energy prices - so they can do the double-dirty on you by making out that they're so expensive because they're so thick and robust, and will (they can lie) save you a fortune on energy costs and maybe even claim you'll save on your insurance premium if you tell them how top-notch your windows are!

This is just me surmising, but in the same way as email scammers deliberately send out implausible-looking spam in the hope that they will find only the most gullible people from the outset - so they don't waste their time on people who bite at first but then later get suspicious and block them - I wonder if the ridiculously ambitious prices and patronising/controlling attitudes are all a deliberate part of the ploy.

If you agree but then have second thoughts, ask around friends and online as to the reasonableness of the price and the company reputation, and then cancel during the legal cooling-off period, you're their worst nightmare. On the other hand, if they can convince people that £35K would be the standard going rate at an absolute minimum, but as a very special offer, they can 'save' them £10K and 'only' charge £25K (for a job that's actually worth well under £10K) and they're massively delighted at the 'bargain', therein lies their best likelihood of seeing the scam all the way through to its highly lucrative conclusion.

So, has anyone any recommendations for firms serving north London please?

That’s probably the most useful thing I’ve read on MN in a while. We’re about to start getting quotes for windows and doors so thank you for taking the time to post this